Oi Plummet:



Should be ready in 2-3 days.

Cheers, Will

can i touch it now? pleeeese?

no, bad boy!

No touchy touchy for Symptom.

Zenon might let you have a ride if you give him your right nut. It's his baby.

shotgun first ride!!!

I has touched it...... :shock: It was hot!!

Hmm one nut for a ride on the board.... I will hast to talk to my head and find out what it thinks of the situation...

damn, he called it.

No way out of this one im afraid zenon.... shotgun rules are final

dw joe ill let you borrow my flexdeck while im riding

oooohhhhh..... brings back memories.....

you know now i'm going to have to compete and build a full carbon deck as mine is only carbon glass......

give me the spec's

length width weight kick angle

have you mounted the trucks and done the bounce test?

is it a foam mould?

did you seal the vac bag to the table?

You sure are buddy.


carbon carbon carbon carbon carbon carbon mmmmmmmmm



The board cut will be 220 wide at the widest tapering to 200 in the middle, weight is just a guess at the moment will let you know when its cut, kick angle is 35 degrees for the vector trucks.


No as its only coming out of the bag today, needs cut before bounce test but will test anyway.


Yep hot wire cut then sanded


Many times

As i said i will just avoid picking you up...... :twisted: thats one way to forgo the rules of shotgun....

I reckon weight of the blank is around 2.2-2.4kg. Will reduce by approximately 1/3 once the blank is cut. So I estimate final weight of 1.6ish maybe?

Final thickness is a hair over 6mm. Lets hope she lasts! In the end we used combo of double bias and uni. We figure it's less likely to snap along the grain that way...

We will be selling these decks for anyone who really wants to have the sickest ride out there. They will be very affordable. Especially considering they are full carbon...

Layup on this one was a Bitch! Number 2 will be far easier though... Once we get our methods down. I can definitely see why CKB uses aluminium tooling and prepreg though...

Cheers, Will
www.pulseboards.com

oohh how much to buy one i feeling pretty lazy. can't really be assed doing another.

yes its really a 2 man job.... well i found that out doing it 1 man... the first layers were starting to gel buy the time i got the vac pump on. not ideal.

what length?

6mm it will be interesting to see how stiff it is compared to mine. at 6mm the carbon/glass board was not stiff enough. i'm picking it should be good full carbon.

i still say mount the trucks before you "waste" the centre just incase its the right stiffeness before you go cutting it down.

Well we set the board as it came out of the press on two blocks of wood and will jumping straight down on the middle and that wasnt anywhere near bottoming it out. and that was like inch and a half off the ground.

I think it will be pretty sweet. once the shape is cut. I have deliberatly given it not much waist so i think we will be fine.

More photos to come later im sure........

The CKB and DEx decks are like 6-6.5mm thick on average.

They will be around $500-$600. Haven't got the exact amount figured out yet, after factoring in labour etc... Can't see them running over $650 though, depending on the finish and graphics required...

We didn't leave enough time between layers.,.. It was touch and go for a minute there :shock: Also started to get a pretty hot cure as the extra volume of resin and a 30 degree garage really set the cure off. I reckon it got up to 60-70deg? No real issue though, especially when you consider snowboard presses can run at double that temp.

We had 3 people in the garage racing around to get all the bits ready... should've prepped a bit better... It was just such a complex layup that some things got neglected.

Looking forward to pressing number 2.

this one is 960mm long, 220 wide. It's a DH and KGB hybrid board. We are very flexible on shapes and sizes and will be able to offer virtually anything... I'd like to have a go at an ultralight, short, dedicated freestyle deck... Try for something like the sub 3kg deck that CKB did a while ago.

Cheers, Will

Blizz, if you do something like that I'd be more then happy to test it out

The next logical step is to start working on a carbon truck set up!

960x220wasting to 200....

very similar to mine. but totally different
920x250 wsting to 220 35 degree kicks. i liek full width where my feet are...

i actually throught you were doing a shorter freestyle deck...

YEEEAAAAAAAH!

Damn i'm pleased about your board production. Nice work.

ps remember it will be more flexi at when the trucks are bolted on but it sounds good.

Mbnmac. carbon truck idea is lurking in my head and has been for several months... but i've been lazy and i'm still to progress with the design to a point where i'm happy to start a proto.

however my breif is not a superlight freestyle type skate truck its a channel type stable at speed with limited or no working parts like pivots/bearings etc.


6fiddy is a fair price. in the end for me the lack of spare cash would dictate i'd have to get of my lazy ass and laminate my own to save the labour content.....

PS post that beast on the flexi forum when your finished yourl blow some minds.

try out, or buy? :twisted:

Carbon trucks are a whole 'nother thang. You should have a spin on Zenons deck when you come down. It should rock.

Hopefully its good enough to make you consider pawning off the pro 90... :shock:

-Will

Next time will go better and have everything including the bag, breather and release layer all cut, ready and waiting in order to be used. Nothing worse that cutting with sticky scissors.

Pour/mix your resin in a icecream container and get yourself a big plastic squeegee or a roller. I prefer a squeeqee. Simply pour the resin out in a strip and spread it around rather than painting and dabbing. Vacuum bagging will do a lot of the work for you.

Might end a little wet at first but by the last layer you can almost go on dry and here is where the hard plastic squeegee comes in... with a bit of pressure dragging the ressin out from the center to the tips and you'll use the resin in the laminate to wet the final layer.

Leave the container on the cool concrete out of the heat. It does heat up in the container too even just a little bit makes all the difference and can gain you the extra 15 minutes or so to finish up on a hot day.

If it starts to gel in the container throw it out and take it outside... if it cooks the gases will make your eyes water!

Oh and check out the boardbuilding yahoo group on building a rockertable or resusable mold surface. A sheet of aluminium is probably the same cost as that block of foam and with a bit of mdf you can get the same results over and over again. 8)

you seem to underestimate wills experience? check the link in his post under his name... www.pulseboards.com this is his work, check it out!


but yes preparation is not always a strong point so you are right there :wink:

Not at all... just offering up advice. Nice boards... cool idea with the recessed trucks on the "low rider".

Hehe... you learn a lot from you first board. Helped a few people build their first to avoid all the mistakes I made too.

it's amaizing the talent lurking in the depths......

here's my advice. I give it abit togue and cheak as i know you guys surpass my skill/experience level.

do the layup first thing in the morning. start at 6am so you have a cooler temp to lay up in.

i used a longer cure hardner.

I also have a reseviour 9kg lpg bottle in my vac pump set up so as soon as the bags down i flick the valve for an instant suck down. If you have industrial vac pumps this probably isn't required.

Next time i will be more scientific with my resin ratio working out the exact ml's per layer and have them mixed up in separate containers.
poor/slap/ roler/poor/slap/roler etc....

now for a completly dry layup and not get our hands dirty we could look at resin infusion......


Now dammit I have to make a full carbon Deck,....... I can't have other people in the country rolling around on fruitier custom decks than myself...... ahhhh..... now my competative nature is showing through i have to surpass your deck with a full carbon deck with inegrated carbon trucks. ahhhh.

Does anyone have a cheap source of titanium rod? 1/2" or there abouts?

Yea, normally we would have had everything completely sussed. The main thing that screwed us over was we did the cure in the middle of the biggest heatwave that chch had faced in a few years... We also used more breather than necessary and the bag was about 50mm too short on one side, these factors all made it a stressful night's work...

Good idea with the LPG tank plummet. We just run two compressors with a little pressure switch so they flick off at 21HGs, and switch back on at 19. Fridge compressors are amazing, I've got 3. One's a spare.

The bag doesnt necessarily take care of absolutely everything, we always give it a quick roll over to get rid of the bigger bubbles. Doing the layup wet is a bit of a pain, but we won't be able to get our hands on prepreg for a while... I honestly don't think we ever will, there is no real demand for products like this in NZ, and we can't compete with the UK manufacturers by the time you factor in the shipping costs etc. The USA on the other hand though... Another downside to vac bagging a wet layup is the finish. It really needs a skim over with a fairing compound, a sand with 200 grit and a nice glossy layer of twill to look good. All of which adds again to the labour cost...

Deck came out at 1.6 kg. I'm stoked with it. Roughly similar shape to the CKB decks, same thickness. His decks come out at 1.6kg too, so it means we nailed the resin to carbon ratio. It was something I spent a good 30 minutes working out.... If you build one plummet. Don't DONT DONT go full uni. We sent a number of emails to a bunch of guys and they have tried this in the past (DEX made 5 of them) and they all snapped. They spilt along the grain like wood. When you think about the orientation of the fibres, it all makes sense...

Just hope this one can handle some abuse.

Cheers, Will

I don't think resin infusion is practical in this case....

Carbon doesn't soak up resin as easily as glass, and id be worried about having "dry spots" in the centre of the core for this reason....

Maybe if you did it in lots of 3? would still end up a bit messy though. I reckon a full pressure press is the way forward. Would reduce the need for finishing, would get rid of all air voids and the layup would be super tight...

Without further ado we present the board ready for its first ride. Might not be entirely finished yet (thinking of putting a nice finish on it) But here she is mounted with the new MBS F3 bindings and nice new vector trucks.

Right off to test ride.

I think www.littlemetals.co.nz/ had some. But you have to be much more specific... which alloy. Do you have a number? I don't see the benefit other than the "coolness factor" 8) though. Some chrome molly would do you just as well.



Infusion is actually easier with carbon as the weave is stiffer and less likely to choke. However a press is much better value for money and a much simpler process. The initial outlay is significant though.

Very nice! Give that board a gloss coat and make the weave POP!!! :twisted:

****NICE****

Has a road test been done yet? hows the flex. is it the cats pajama's? the bees knees?, the dogs bollucks? the shizle?

Yes i'll take that kcb/spike advise and use db in the centre and uni on the outside. im my previous layup i has some of the db layer too close to the outer layer.... leson learned.

It wont snap you will be able to run over it with a car... the wheels and trucks may break but the deck will remain.

As for finish layer you can get the mould side layer finished during layup. I'm not sure what prep you do on the foam mould but i prepped my ply mould for a finish coat and slapped a layer of resin down first then the matt. It came out already finished. Could have used a layer of gel coat but didn't have any.

You can buy prepreg in nz. I was talking to a customer in wellington who uses it. But you need freezers for the prepreg and hot box for the cure..... too much tooling for a me. He did say it was real easy to work with....

Guster
Titanium for light weight, strength and corrosion resistance. Cromo I doubt will cut the mustard on the beach. i could also consider 316,2205,2507

yeah resin infusion is far too much tooling for me. i see the advantages for a production unit tho. PS my work supplies products to company in melbourn that make the carbon leading edges for i think the airbus a360... so it is possible.

Symptom and Zenon were still riding the board when I left at 11:30pm....

Reason for the grit finish was to ensure a nice tight layup, so we went with peel ply and breather... it ensures good "airflow" around the deck.

Personally I wanna go for a glossy twill, but that's another $60, it's up to what zenon wants... We are also thinking about different checker patterned or holographic carbon...

All production models will obviously be supermirrorglossshiny.

Rides super well at speed, grippy as hell. Flex is pretty damn good, a LOT more "lively" than any other ply deck out there. The way the board shifts under your weight is more "dynamic." It springs back evenly across the width... It's quite poppy, but could potentially be slightly stiffer. Then again, Zenon is pretty light so it suits him very well...

I'm very happy with it as a first proto, maybe one or two more layers of double bias in the mix wouldn't hurt, but I'll get a range of opinions from a bunch of diff riders first....

As for prepreg, yea, it's definitely accessible, but will have to look into it further in terms of cost etc. A wet layup is fine, it just requires a few extra few hours in the finishing process, and it's harder to work with....

All in all, couldn't have hoped for a better result!

Order one today!
Cheers, Will

One of the Best sessions yet... kiting by moonlight is a must!

we almost made it to the waimak! but got a little scared of the wind dying and turned around...

bring on tomorrow! (and maybe another night session)

Looks sweet guys, can't wait to compare it to my Trampa

The famous Spiglord. Where have you been hiding?

plmmet , Dave, plumbtree

titanium is the go, 16mm though. Alloy is very light but is total crap , just ask my 4 axles in the dust bin. i have some 16mm stainless rod in 316 for you but titanium is the ultimate and you will not look back.

get butch to bring some TI axles down here when he visits long term to suit the kitedeck Revo trucks with a selection of Revo rubber bits, i have a drawing of the housing for those (tweaked out a bit) you whole deck will be almost 5kgs !!

TI revos 1kg (pair)
wheels 1kg full set
deck 1.6kgs odd
bindings 500 g
sweat 400g
blood 500g
tears 0g

Yeah ti carbon revo's would be the fruit... not sure i have the tooling to make them tho.... will have to do more research. considering other designs. yourve sent me drawing in the past.... wouldn't need 16mm titaniam if it was carbon wrapped..

watch this space. the think cap is engaged,

Jimmy,

If you have drawings for the housings of revo's you reakon you could tweak em to be like the P centers? That would make the best freestyle truck cause the board gets to be shorter and not require kicks.

Im watching this space for sure.


Plummet: You should consider the vector trucks, lighter than the matrix by far but nice and stable. Had mine going fast (not terribly fast) with no sign of wobble even when i was trying to influence it by weighting the back and lifting my front foot to deweight the front even further, and they still held there own. All the while being nice and carvy (just ask symptom he keep getting caught in my tracks on the way back on our night run last night)

the answer is yes you could adjust to p centre type. They are a simple design but difficult to manufacture unless you have cnc mill. Making them from carbon is possible but would take a huge amount of thinking and jigs.

i'd like to try some vectors. but i want more stable than channels. i want to try and get close to 70 of the board.... need super stable.. so i think vectors wont cut it.

however when i make this carbon deck it i'll end up with the carbon glass as a spare so slamming some vectors and my t1 and rockstars on that would give me a nice freestylish board.

Just be aware that while titanium is fairly resistant to corrosion many of the alloys suffer from galvanic corrosion. So unless you find matching bolts you are not really any better off.

The round Revos aren't to hard to make on a lathe and finish on a rotary table on a milling machine. Though elliptical ones are a few extra steps to off-centre the curves. There's also the extra effort for the molds to cast matching elastomers. The P centers just offsets a mounting tab at the angle of the tips to enable the steering. You can also pack them with a wedge if you want more or less than the factory angle. I've been wanting to fabricate some stainless ones till I saw the bionic trucks. Hope to have some stainless ones fabricated soon as I've got the Moosetruck running.

AHHH..... they are pretty hard when you don't have a lathe or a milling machine.... post picture when they are done.....

Even more frustrating when you have all but the time... :roll:

I'm trialing casting some PU elastomers for the Carkeek leading links which I'll be using on the Moosetruck. Molds are machined already - just got a little sidetracked. Provided that works well enough I'll make some molds and try casting some MTB truck elastomers too. Either Bionic or Revos' design though the Bionics' elastomer needs an insert to bind the axle torsion to a square shafted kingpin. Roughly ends up being the same amount of work to fabricate. I don't fancy broaching stainless anyday soon so I might end up making Revo style trucks unless I get lucky and score a die filer somewhere.

i don't have the time either. 3 kids under 5....... VERY busy,.
I liked the idea of the bionic except the centre pin had far too many working parts to wear when the sand gets in.

i'm interesting to learn how to make my own elastomers tho. Presuming i can make a decent mould whats the process involved in making the urethane? i presume you get some feed stock and heat it and pour it in. Do you need to compress it to get the right durometer or do you just by the right duro feed stock?

Polyurethane is usually a two part resin and the durometer is achieved with the addition of a plasticiser or a filler ie. more filler = higher durometer. You can buy them with the additive premixed to the durometer or shore hardness you want. They are fairly clear often with just a subtle tint to indicate the durometer in the product range and further colouration can be achieved with the addition of acrylic pigments up to 1%p.v.

They also have a fairly low viscousity and low potlife meaning a low tooling time and low void retention. I simply milled molds from some scrap alloy stock and plan to use PVA or mold wax for a mold release. Looking at about $100/L of casting volume but discount for larger volumes.

very interesting. might make my design of trucks alot easier if i can make my out elastomers by this manner. who sells this stuff?

You can get sheets of it for punching out donuts too but plastic suppliers are so-so on stocking it. The place I got the resin from has since been re-owned and moved. I'll have to check with my sister as she kept track of them. Most composite suppliers(Nuplex, Norski etc.) should stock something too.

Talking about donuts. One thing I could never figure out is why when your axle length increases on skate trucks(compared to skateboards) the donut does not increase to match?

Perhaps its because the person on top and the deck doesn’t change and therefore the leverage generated by that equation does not change significantly, despite the longer throw of the wheels on the longer shaft ? but what do i know ?
P style units would be easier to make than the Revos id say , for 10 pounds plus shipping you can get the elastomers for revos i think.. The drawing would take about 10 mins to alter for P style housings but you couldn’t sell them only make your own , they will have a full blown copy right.
I had them drawn a while ago and improved the design for Dave at kite deck , I sent him the 3d models for his interest. Pitty the two main blokes split up and the kite deck has lost ground. The DEX is the nicest looking deck now , but I get the feeling that is the guy with marketing strength and not making/design strength. Id like to know one day, but of a shame all round.
The easiest way would be to machine a cylinder and weld the tab on , milling = zero just a drill press required to make a one off. Just need a hardened drilling template to fit over the cylinder and end cap. The end cap doesn’t need a mil either just 2 holes and a file out job to get the oval slot.
One thing I do know is kite deck is a bloody awesome board.

for anyone remotely considering this idea , its a labour of love, if you have a short fuse or bad heart then just buy the proper thing they are worth the money.

Problem is you can't by revo's or d ex genious trucks even if you wanted to. .... . . bummer or i'd probably buy a set they are the best design i have seen thus far for the sand.

if i make a knock off set they will be slightly different. I'd use 316 tube maybe 2" x 065 then carbon wrap a mounting bracket. I like the idea of the enclosure fully encased in urethane so i would pour the resin mix into the housing with the axles in there. i'd then adjust the stiffness buy pre-loading the elastomer.

The only disadvantage i see to the revo design is that the slotted end cap and wear on the shaft if grit gets in.

mind you my carbon i beam ideal is still lurking in the back of my head too...

Though for the same amount of rider travel you have greater sensitivity in response, greater hysteresis for the same damping. The reverse is also true that the truck is also more sensitive in feedback. The channel trucks added stiffer springs or better yet urethane eggs or spring dampeners to solve this. I'd have thought a larger donut to have a similar effect in damping the hysteresis or speed wobbles. But then never had the time or inclination to test it again after Kiwiinmotion/APT closed down. Throwing myself down a dirt hill always took a backseat to soft water and kitesurfing. Still have a good set of channel trucks from Plummet waiting for a project.

The endcaps on the Revo's just help locate the movement of the axle in a fixed plane while also allowing adjustment of steering sensitivity by rotating them in effect the same as the tip kick in a traditional board. You can still fix the movement with a traditional kingpin if you don't care for the adjustment and the kingpin does not have to be so strong either as the elastomers support it too. Endcaps are not really needed anymore either. Then your casing also doesn't have to be round anymore... etc. etc. all still on the backburner along with those channel trucks! :roll:

Bit sad about D-EX... they were onto a great concept. At least we're getting Butch back in NZ!

i know where 2sets are , and butch could bring some back. question is are they for sale ?

the axles have rubber boots over them to block out all sand and dirt and there is a bit of plastic in ther for the axle to grind on. its also suspension in that config and it makes the ride extra smooth.

i like the idea of pipe but it could be tough to hold the end caps ? did i miss something up there ?

if you come across anyone selling a revo let me know i'd be keen it will save me a lot of time. butch isn't selling any of his revo's.... and spike isn't making any at the moment that i know of...

i've gone off the carbon wrap stainless tube idea. i'll just use the tube a a mould abd punch it out for full carbon p centre. as for the bolts i would bolt from one end cap to the other ane possibly have some locating tabs on the carbon center.

the next issue is finding the urethane epoxy and also how do i make rubber boots?

Conflicting stories but from what I can tell they aren't selling anymore though after sales service is still pretty good. Good score if you can get a pair but I'm not feeling to bad about fabricating my own based on the same idea.

What about a fibrefilled plastic or teflon endcap with a couple of screws through the side of the tube rather than the flange-fit and boots made from heavy duty heatshrink?

Ta-DA!
www.topmark.co.nz/articlelive/articles/3...xible-Urethanes.html

how about we move the revo truck discussion to its own thread?
i'll create one.

Action pics as promised. Rider is zenon.

Cheers, Will

O Nice!! Woohoo!

Im going to be stealing all the photos from that weekend!