ok i know there's board speeds posts on other forums but i want to see how fast dudes in nz are going.


mine is
38km/hr 12 knots ish 10m venom.

just got the gps and had a couple of sessions with it so theres more to come.
mind you that was feeling pretty fast. sledging down the beach at those speeds was definatly interesting.

Board speeds eh....

My top speed is 42.8 MPH and yes i have proof in the shape of a gps photo. I set this a couple of years ago on a 7.5m Ozone Frenzy and my Quadrolution speed board.
One of my teammates has done 42.5mph on a standard landboard and a 6m Ozone Access.

Good luck with the speed.

Butch

yeah i've seen your top speed post on the flexifoil forum.
thats nuts.

i think to give all us mortal non sponsered old hacks a fighting chance you should have to re-do your top speed record on a kids skateboard with a 20 sq cm teatowel in 5 knot winds..... in the soft sand.

ill be pleased to do 42.8km/h

Plummet he did say mph not kmph in case you missed that.

I just worked out that the other day when i was out i did a run from the waimak mouth to north brighton surf club in 18 mins.

Which means that i averaged 38.8kmph on the way but my top speed would have been more than that as i know for sure the start of the run was faster than the end. so i like to think i broke 40 kmph but i have no actual proof. Next time i will get some. Still that is pretty fast on a landboard....o thats a normal landboard, mbs with matrix trucks. (thanks norwester)

Let's make this a 'NZ land(board)' speed record for 2008....

Maybe this will tempt Butch to come home to set a new record....

Until then Dave, your 38kph holds...

right, spig i may need to borrow that gps next time i attempt to break 40 on the board....

O forgot to add that last run was using a 12m flexifoil atom in 15 knot gusty wind.

yes i like it 2008 nz speed record.... hehehe
i'm setting the bar low. hahaha

yes i know its mph. thats what i was trying to say i'll be happy doing 42.8km/h. 42.8m/hr is a completly different level altogether.
i do think butch has a huge advantage with those massive big brass clangers dangling between his legs. obviously giving a good counterballance against the pull of the kite..... hehe.

maybe i should build the plumetrolution. i can see it now a farm gate with mountainbike wheels fitted. that might give me the stability to go super fast..... nah i'm still lacking the appropriate sized clangers.

zennon buy one of these cheap gps's
www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Equestrian/Othe...ction-138749332.htm.

works a treat.

Right then boys. That was the incentive i needed to sell up here and fly on home. With any luck ill be back before the summer starts to set a record that will last forever.... well till 2009 anyways...

Its not all that difficult to get good speeds. Jus get a fast kite, on a hellish windy day and hold on for yer life...
I have come off in excess of 40mph before and it hurts..... (my left nut was blue for 3 weeks) but dont let that stop yas trying to beat it...

Cant wait to get home and meet the local kite squad.

Faster, faster

Butch

ahem ,whos summer ?

Yours

ive got to about 51-52 km, or so i was told, by someone following me in a buggy.

you still in ohakuni 50psi? if so we need to organise a trip to himatangi beach in march.
might be able to get close to your 52 along there.

going to be a busy month for me but see what i can do, have you got a date in mind?

Whilst Buggying at Weston super mare thats on the west coast of England...
I pasted a guy on a Venom doing over 40 mph on this board..Now thats a crazy speed for a boarder..But I bet its fun!!

uped my pb for top speed to on the board 48kph riding switch..... hehehe. nice.
13knots 10m frenzy mooseland muriwai.

oooh yeah!!


YEAH!

ps yes i have gps evidence

By riding switch i am assuming you are just riding with your dominant leg at the back...not riding toeside...

Im going to be building a landboard very soon so should be able to contribute to this properly very soon...well maybe wait till after winter when the onshores come back....

yep.

riding healside on my bad side. NOT toeside

i'm goofy and was traveling natural direction.

i gota say that 48 felt pretty easy when all the conditions came together to provide a smooth hard surface in the right direction with clean wind.

of course now i'm thinking if i can go 48 switch i can go faster goofy.... maybe 60 is on the cards.

ha!!!!!!!
55kph 10m manta II gusting 18-22 knots.
sliding in the gusts almost falling off the back in the lulls. aqau plaining on the wet bits of beach.....

thats around 34nph. so i got 8mph/13kph to match butches 42.8/68.8kph.

its still a mile away. but now i'm thinking maybe in the realms of possibility.

Not on a kite, but I have done about 40km with a car following and I know others who have done about 70km.

I think the dirt surfer record is 120km (also with out a kite).

sounds like you need to start kiting and see how fast you can go,,,,,
Sorry top speeds without a kite doesn't count on the kite forum.,...

you cant be too far away butch ....
better brint a yakuzza GT 7.3m with you

i might have some wheels you need plummet , for the kiwi quadrolugeman. 400 /4.8 x 8 x 4pcs. make an offroad buggy and you can have them after its done, get one of the mould for durling hes desperate for a fix again, possibly ... ill give you the plans and you can make it your own , as you will.

Nope im not far away, although my real estate agent needs to pull his finger out if im gonna make it for the summer.
7.3 GT eh bro, Was thinkin more the 4m or 5m in nuking winds. Next attempt i do i wanna make it over 50mph on me board. Very attainable me thinks. By now ive got the hang of bailing at great speed, its not pretty, but ive broken no bones kiting yet.... (knocks on head).
Its the Stealth sand that really gets ya, that and hitting a 20mm deep puddle at 40mph certainly makes ya feel like Jesus, as the board stays put and ya coolly skip across the water as if you were the messiah himself.

Be careful guys

Butch

HAHA nothing like walking on water. maybe it gives you a chance to practice some bare foot kite surfing.........

i recond there quite a few places in nz you can go superfast. moose is one of them. 90mile beach is super hard and long that would be a canditate and of course therel be a primo spot somewhere between himatangi and waikanai.

yeah i still can't jusify having a buggy jimmy. it would sit there for almost the entire year .... but if i made the monster dune/speedboard i'd get some use out of that as i could stash it in the car for the wellingtion trips. it might eliminate the chance of butches soft sand superman's if it trucks over the soft sand better.

Id love to see the plans for that board Jimmy, just out of interest. ive got a couple of ideas floating around in my head myself.

hi zenon,

i have been sick for the last 2 weeks and in hospital for some of it.. my words might be getting tangled , i meant plans for the carkeek leading link front fork we have been fitting to our buggies and exporting to popeye the welder and sand yeti in dubai. your welcome if thats of interest to you too, its a different take on the nabx if youve seen that before, and a few bits thrown in, rather critical bits hehe.

its all for fun so if you are keen to make one , im happy to spread the wealth. it gets us all to a better place and has inspired others to make thier own things which is even better.

i had a kite deck for quite a while and oved that beast, but buggies were it for me . i made alloy kite deck axles (dont try) drew up the kitedeck housings in 3d cad and improved them , it is actually plummet who has the plans for the deck and the know how. man those alloy axles wer lovely just about 1/2 strength they needed to be. titanium all the way for axles, coated alloy housings and carbon deck seem to be the best way to go currently. But perhaps a plastic housing is on the cards ? what ever it it the REVO and DEX trucks are the shizzle. my leading link is inspired by REVO's in part i guess

upon second reading it is i that has a tangled mind.

But i agree those revos are sweet, but my favourite trucks that i might have an attempt to make are the Design-extreme 1 offs that are on their site,






Sooo nice, remove eveything that is not vital to making the truck work and you get yourself a super nice design. I love it, so after talking to butch i might have a crack at making some myself, but i think ill start with metal not carbon.... they will be heavy but ill get to know the design and go from there.

yes i'm considering making some carbon trucks also. The trucks of spikes look super simple and effective. the layup would be pretty simple too.... just need to make a jig to exactly locate the titanium axle in the mould. In saying that those arn't the trucks for me as they are carvy style skate trucks. i need stable as trucks.

so i have two projects mulling in the back of my head.

make some carbon channels or knock off carbon revo's for my carbon glass board.

make the monsta speed/dune board. This would look sorta like a quadrillution with buggy wheels. and even the possibilty of putting bigfoot buggy wheels on if required.....

it's gona require alot of thinking/research before any building takes place.

w hoo , go plummet ! carbon revos are the shizzle.. forget the skate style it has a resonance that you will hit (speed wobbles) then the ground will hit you.. wheels cant be too big or your ankles will be the weak link, ouch. i think the barrows are good , tubeless, there are four of em and the deck is only 2kg so it might be ok for softer stuff, def if it has rained

GEEZE i dont think i can image riding a board with bigfoot wheels....that would be like insane....

Imagine coming off it it would like run your ankles over and although the wheels wouldnt be painful the random angles your legs could make could be.

But yeah a quadralution could be really awesome. Getting the underslung deck and trucks working well could be a nice wee challenge tho.

Plummet, im seriously looking at going down the full carbon deck route or at least carbon and foam once my mates and i get a bit more experience and research under our belts. im just unsure as to how much carbon would be required. We have access to uni carbon not sure what strength, blizzad knows im just unsure of how many layers would be required. 13?


And also a question: the main differences i can see between skates and channel trucks are the;

Skates: 1 bushing on the point of pivot and 15 degree angle
Channel: 2 bushings either side of the pivot and 30 degree angle

From that im assuming that the 2 bushings on the channels helps to eliminate the wobble?? correct or other things im missing?

hehehe big foot board would be a tad stupid. the wheels are the key for the monsta board. i'm keeping an open mind. need to look at different options. like mini quad wheels, gokart wheels. maybe a smaller but wide wheel that a barrow.?

yeah... so far i'm favouring a carbon revo style. shouldn't be too hard. infact easier for me to layup are carbon revo than mill an allum one as i don't have milling capability.

Zenon. Don't do foam core. stick to all carbon or carbon glass. Run in all in Uni don't piss around 600grm uni carbon i'll have to count my layers but i'm thinking 10 layers. I can jump up and down on my board until it bottoms on the ground and no snapping. you can't break it. not even when the missus runs over it in the car! your foam core will be light as but snap on huge impacts dropping out of the sky.

ps if you don't layup enough layers then its easier to layup more afterward. if you lay up too much then you can just cut it down until it's the right weight and springyness.

Carbon revos will be sweet, will you go down the "P" centre route? or the standard first version they did?

If you were able to build a set with all the same ability to adjust the angle of the axel then that would be awesome....

so 10 layers of 600gm uni, sounds pretty good to me. Cant wait till after techs finished for the year, election day work for me means a couple of hundy into the bank account that i might put into a carbon deck, we will see.

Plummet, can you post a picture of the press you used to form your serpent on? i cant seem to find it in my emails anymore.

make it 12 layers of uni......

ps uni looks a tad industrial. if you want it to look nice then a layer top and bottom of 200grm matt on the 45 will be the go.


p centers or not? probably not because i've already got the kicks on the board.

i'll ferret the pic and email you.

Hey Plummet,

I'm Will, a longboard and kiteboard builder based in chch.

I will be helping Zenon in his quest for a carbon board, by offering our custom board building services to him :wink:

Just a quick couple of questions on your deck:
1- what is the weight blank?
2- do you use a formula for calculating the amount of resin required in the carbon (aka, prepeg styles :twisted: )
3- are you using aluminium as a release medium and former (like CKB) or foam/wood molds?
4- do you use a clear coat process to achieve a good finish, or just layup the last layer by hand?

Cheers, Will

I had a board with Barrow wheels a few years back in 2004. The idea was for soft sand and speed as yours is.
It was a Kheo Flyer Deck with extra wide channel trucks. Worked reasonably good on the soft stuff, but was way to high off the ground for any real speed without your legs turning to wobbly jelly after about 20mph. The wobble was pretty intense and jus got progressively worse if you tried to power out of it. Mostly due to the super wide trucks needed to hold the barrow tyres but also as it was so high off the ground.
Worked a treat for a while, then i took it to one of the first early landkite comps over here and proceeded to boost hige air off the kicker they had.
Lets just say a couple of landings wernt so graceful with all that weight on my feet in the air, and the trucks got a wee bent out of shape. I straightened em but it never did ride the same after that so i decomissioned it.
This is the only pic i could find.
Good luck with yours guys, and i challenge the fastest to a race when i get home... haha
Its great to see so many board builders at home, good ole kiwi ingenuity eh...

Butch

woa thats one high board butch... the board i plan will be longer and unverted truck aka quadrillition style. i'll be some fabricating intrustrial strength trucks to handle the barrows.

its gona be a while before i start the build. composite trucks are gona be my first priority as my mbs matrix's are wearing fast.

blizzard.

no pre-preg for me just a normal hand lay up and vac bag to suck out the excess resin. if you have pre-preg capability then go for it.

my board weight is a tad over 2kg. too heavy realy. but it is carbon/glass and longer than your average freestyle deck. i made the mistake of using too much double bias and laying it up on the 45. it made for a board that was torsionally stiff with too much flex up and down. I decided that my next board needed to be all uni-directional. that way it would be lighter for the same flex. I recon if 'd used all uni i would have ha dthe board around 1800grm all carbon maybe 1500. prepreg is going to be lighter again.

wood mould. just because that was what i had available. i preped the mould for a smooth finish layed up matt for the top of the board (first on top) and left the bottom as per the vac bag finish.

sounds all good man. I've been thinking a lot about resin ratios in carbon. It's incredibly difficult stuff to get wet out right, (no real colour change like glass).

I think if you had some kind of forumla, which gave you a ballpark figure for the amount of resin needed (based on area of the cloth), and you then had to make that amount go as far as possible... That would be far more efficient than simply chucking resin over the top, hoping to get it wet out enough.

I think the combination of a foam stringer and thin ply is the way to go.... uses less carbon than a solid deck, and should be much cheaper and lighter methinks.... I think the amount of uni you suggested is about right... its probably better to slightly over-engineer in the beginning anyways.

As for the 200 grm matt... I'm not sure if zenon has been good enough to be rewarded with some nice twill weave finish at over $130 per metre... but we will see... :twisted:

dont use the foam , listen to the plummet
dont make all that effort go down the tubes

yeah i was advised against foam or wood core. the best board builders De-Ex, Cambello, KCB have all tried foam/wood core but have decided solid is the way and the light for landboard deck.

if you want to save $ then use a Glass uni as a core. it makes for a heavier board but a super sweet ride. maybe 50/50

as for resin ratio. your resin supplier should be able to tell you. I use West system epoxy resin and my memory is 30% resin to cloth ratio in weight. i'd have to check.

hehe yes twill finish. thats why i only had it on the top side. looks nice but does stuff all to the strength of the board.

Why not foam stringer, with 12 sheets 600 uni?



Will use 1/3 of the carbon in a full carbon deck...

I really cant see why its a "bad" idea....

Cheers, Will

Here's the advise butch gave me

"hey Guys,
Cheers Spig... Yep Our D-ex decks are definately out there in front.
Be carful with the foam core in the deck though bud. We have made and tested countless foam core ideas and 95% of these didnt work. They squeak and creak and the foam is the first layer to go. Unless of course youre a guru at this sort of thing, then go hard! Stick to carbon and glass if youre new to it. That way you stand a good chance of getting a sweet rideable board out the end...
I have a couple of early Jim Cambello carbon decks, and a couple of carbon D-ex Genesis decks as well. We are definately getting somewhere with all the testing, but if i told ya id have to kill ya.

Good luck with the project.

Che

Butch"

I too thought of the foam stringer idea. Its used quite successfully in longboard skateboards. but those boards don't have the stress of a bad landing from 5-15 foot in the air. Unlike a kitesurf board were whole board can take most of the impact. the load on a landboard has to be from the feet to the trucks. theres alot more point loading therefore you need more flexible and strong deck and less stiffness to absorb the impact. Adding foam will increase the stiffness and reduce flex but the shear forces between the foam and carbon will be quite high thus the issues butch talks about where the foam core internally delaminates. over time.

my board measure 130mm off the ground in the middle with the 8 inch wheels on. i can bottom this out with a stuffed up landing and sure appreciate the amount the deck will absorb the impact. i'm not sure the foam core will to this repeatitly without failing.

After all that rant i've only made this one carbon glass board so far. And its Sweet. but i can't be considered an expert. If your sitting there busting out composite kitesurf decks for a living them i'm sure your skill is greater than mine. As butch states if your the guru try the foam core and see what happens theres only one way to find out.

ps read the rest of this thread.
www.kiteforum.co.nz/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=2512

theres a whole heap of discussions on making lqnboards.

Yea, this field is totally unknown to me as well... Dealing with the extreme forces that a landboard is likely to face is something that i have never had to take into consideration with my longboard/kiteboard building.

I think if butch and the guys at CKB/D EX have been through the process, and found it hard to engineer correctly, I think that a foamcore is probably a bad idea...

Something that could work, is replacing the stringer with more uni, say 20-30 layers or so... that would still use less carbon overall, thereby saving weight and cost. The areas under the feet could be supplemented with a nice little bit of bamboo veneer or gaboon plywood (a couple of layers at 0.6mm each, or 1.8mm ply), as well as a few sneaky bits of uni - under and over - would guarantee strength... flex is another issue though... i'll just build 2 boards to get it right...

I think it would still be nice and beefy, whilst also being cheaper to make, lighter and stronger... :twisted:

I'll do some more research into prepeg and resin ratios. I think 50/50 was the correct one for glass... I'll just use a bit of perforated release film in the vac bag to help keep the weight down as much as possible...

Cheers, Will

ooh bamboo stringer.... i've always wanted to make a bamboo longboard... Loaded do some very nice bamboo v'lams....

sounds like you have some tech ideas. make sure photo's of the process and finished board are posted.

one last thing. the good guys rave about the "pop" a carbon board gives them to get into the. So its not all about absorbing the impact its about creating a dynamic flex that will help the rider into the air in the first place.

if you making a board with stringers, ply foot pads etc do it in such a way that you can trim the board down incrementally until you achieve the desired flex/pop.

You are right plummet, loaded do make some nice boards, ive got a dervish and it is very nice to ride.

I am almost reconsidering my descision to go down the all carbon or carbon/glass route. My reason is that i want a board that i can take to the hills with and go mountain boarding and when doing some nice large jumps there there is no kite to bring you down softly.... so im not sure that a full carbon deck will last up there.

Thinking about it tho i could be wrong as there are quite a few mountain boarders using Trampa decks which are a composite, carbon i think, and they chuck those around quite alot.

Ill see what happens. Right now priority is polytech work then the design/research will begin.

Cheers plummet i got that email...

make the carbon board right and you will not be able to break it!. it will litterally be bullet proof!!..

i can't break mine! it flexes to the ground and bounces back again.

hehe at the moose a guy was using it as a springboard bouncing in the middle of it and doing a back flip off it hahaha!!.

a board with foam/ wood core will break well before the carbon will!.

I've got a trampa 14 ply that I used for down hill awhile ago and it can take whatever you can hit it with. Heavy as, but Ben Toulmin could still backflip it. Its also been used as a spring board before. Only thing is the 14 ply has abit much flex, 15 or 16 would have been better. Got a nice amount of pop in it too.

Upon further inspection tho i realised that Trampa boards are not actually carbon. Some form of plastic composite. But thats ok.

yeah , they are brushed to look like carbon mat but they arent, still what ever they are they are really nice and un breakable, none in 3 years so far that i know of.

WHOOOT. Added a few kph to my pd top speed.

first real speed run on the home made trucks and granny tyres. also first time out on the 6m access. wind was cross on and the speed run was abit too downwind for my liking. but what the hell the trucks where as stable as a super tanker and the grannies churned the sand and over all it fell real easy.

With a slightly more onshore direction i'm sure i can go even faster!

Raglan, 6m access xc 20-30 knots serpent board carbon/duplex trucks granny tyres.


Butch 68.9 kph
Plummet 59 kph
50psi 52kph
zennon 40ish?

Ohhh within 10kph of Butch.... When i started this thread i thought 70kph what insane and yourd need to have a few sandwiched short of a picnic to try and go that fast.... now its within reach it doesn't seem that silly. maybe i've lost a few sandwiches along the way.

yeah you probably are now, it was great to see you cranking at the B4 on sunday, i got video of some of your jumps too Dave. how about posting my arival to the b4 up here some where ?