Got the proposed review in the mail today and had a quick look through to see whats changing

The main points being added are in S1.6.10 TRANSIT ZONE and refer to a map which shows a triangular area starting at the toilets and reaching to the northern and southern ends of the bar

-No person shall swim in the vicinity of the bar at the harbour entrance, at the northern end of Ngarunui Bach

-The priority use for this area is a transit area for vessels entering or departing the harbour and it is recognised that boats may approach this area at a speed in excess of 5 knots

- any other users in this area must not obstruct or impede any vessel that is transiting through the zone.

-All power driven vessels transiting the area must maintain their course. Any kite surfers or board sailors operating in this area shall keep out of the path of any transiting vessel and shall give way to all transiting boats

-No kite surfers or board sailors shall operate in the joggle.


There is no mention of what or where the "joggle" is

Submissions close 20 March

i think i was in the joggle the other weekend. that's what it felt like anyway.

THe Joggle is the area in the channel where the swells are refracting, crossing up and "joggling" - this is just 100 metres up from the poo pipe where all the tootlers and show ponies like to ride. This is E.W./boatie BOLLOCKS - ignorant laws made by ignorant people, rich/stupid boaties getting E.W. to write up unneccesary laws because they are so fearfull of the area. Ask any of the coastguard or commercial guys and they don't have any problem with us if we stay out of their way.

What ever happend to the rule about power giving way to sail ? after all we are sailing and they are powered so really they should be giving way to us as we rip it ! you are right sky , it seems the rich allways have control . shurely one of your crew must have some weight to swing or could we all chip in and pay off some corrupt member of the council ? :twisted:

QUOTES FROM PROPOSED NAV. SAFETY REVIEW CONCERNING RAGLAN:


TRANSIT ZONE

No person shall swim in the vicinity of the bar at the harbour entrance, at the north eastern end of Ngarunui beach.

The priority use for this area is a transit area for vessels entering or departing the harbour and it is recognized that boats may approach this area in excess of 5 knots.

Any other users in this area must not obstruct or impede any vessel that is transiting through the zone.

All power vessels transiting the area must maintain their course.

ANY KITESURFERS OR BOARDSAILORS OPERATING IN THIS AREA SHALL KEEP OUT OF THE PATH OF ANY TRANSITING VESSEL AND SHALL GIVE WAY TO ALL TRANSITING BOATS.

NO KITESURFERS OR BOARDSAILORS SHALL OPERATE IN THE "JOGGLE"
___________________________________________________________

If this bylaw goes through, any Joe-Blow Boatie with a Power Boat seems to have every legal right to run over any Kiter or Poley who is unfortunate enough not to have noticed there was a boat approaching from behind them at 30+ kts.

Also it completely BANS any of us sailors from going in the waves because to get to the waves you have to tack upwind through the "JOGGLE"

By saying, "NO SAILING IN THE JOGGLE" E.W. is effectively banning us from using the whole of the channel upwind of the toilet block/poo-pipe and not allowing us access to the beaches.

I'm amazed that technically, in the future there could be a day when the E.W. Police Launch comes to arrest me for riding the waves at Suckers,Salvage R's or the Bar.....

Or maybe just fines me up to $10,000 or 12 months prison for freestyling in the channel upwind of all the Auckwakkers!

____________________________________________________________



If you have read this far & would like to help by putting in your own submission opposing this bylaw, it has to be done in writing and recieved by E.W. no later than March the 20th.

The subject is;

Whaingaroa (Raglan) Harbour, Subclause S1.6.10 Transit Zone.

State clearly that you, "Oppose the provision S1.6.10"

Summarize why you oppose it e.g;

"I don't have eyes in the back of my head to watch out for boats travelling in excess of 5 kts."


"I have customary rights to recreational sailing in this area. As a group we have been windsurfing here for 20 years and there has never been any problems because Maritime laws work adaquately regarding power-boat and sailing vessel navigation."

Ask them to drop the vague use of the term "Joggle" and change the wording to something like;

"No kiteboarders or windsurfers shall obsruct or impede boats transiting/ crossing the Raglan Bar"

E mail Shelley Monrad, you'll find that @ www.ew.govt.nz

Submission form at:

www.ew.govt.nz/policyandplans/navigation...safetysubmission.pdf

They need to be posted or faxed as per the info on the form (there is no facility to email a submission as far as I can tell). Anyone going to attend the 4 April meeting to present their submission in person?

If you are going to make a submission, I strongly suggest that you enlist the help of a Lawyer..... A submission saying "Because we have always been able too and boaties are fuck heads" is not going to do our cause OR your submission very much good.

Does anyone know if any of the fourm members are lawyers and are willing to donate a little time to read over peoples submissions? We could even try talking to some Wind Surfers (gasp) as they are effected as well and they may have a lawyer in their comunity.

Cheers

I was involved in a similar sort of thing (not kiteboarding) with our local council and I don't think lawyers are really necessary. The point of the submission form is to allow people who agree or disagree to a proposal to officially register their opposition/support. Therefore, most submissions are from people in the local community empassioned enough to write about something they disagree with. I won the proposal I put forward due mainly to the volume of protests I managed to curry. I also won because I spoke to the protest at the council meeting, and wrote a proper speech rather than a cursory 'off the cuff whinge'. The best advice I can give is to write your opposition to this proposal in such a way that your argument is reasoned rather than emotive, and get lots of locals to support your cause too. I photocopied the prescribed form and distributed it to as many people as possible, then collected them too. Most people don't submit these things because they can't be bothered getting the forms, posting them etc. If you do the dog work, they'll fill in the form.

I'm going to put in a submission right now using the shortcut Brad posted above. I haven't kited at Raglan yet, but am sure that when I become more skilled and less scared of never seeing my board again, I will. I'll consider my protest as an investment for the future!

Just sent this off:

___________________________________________________________
I have been Kitesurfing at Raglan for four years. There is talk of creating a new bylaw.


Creating the proposed additional bylaws will increase the danger for both parties (ie kiter/windsurfer vs engine powered vessel). I cannot understand why anyone would think that the current maritime laws & bylaws would be thought to be ineffective.

I am not aware of any breaches of current law or a situation where new law would be required; however, please don't target a 'user group' in any future law changes. The sports of kitesurfing and windsurfing are individual pursuits and the very nature of these sports educates the participants very well that they are responsible for their own actions. On a constructive note how about a sign educating any overseas kitesurfers/windsurfers (kitesurf/windsurf tourist numbers are certainly increasing in the area) of current rules - at the rigging up location at the side of the estuary.

The kiters I know are very much aware that there are some concerned motor powered vessel users of this channel with regards to the wind users and remain respectful and cautious.

A motor powered vessel may need to go faster that 5 knots due to going against the strong current; however, I don't see the need to go faster than 5knots+the oncoming current when within 200m of another vessel - it is just simply dangerous.

With regards to the raglan bar - once again - current laws make an incident impossible if abided by.

I would also like to add that kitesurfers and windsurfers have been responsible for rescuing swimmers from this area.


If I have to make a submission please send me the infomation on how to do so as soon as possible - It would be more efficient to do this via email
_________________________________________________

After a further read of the document I linked to, submissions MUST be in writing/fax. Print off your letter, attach it to the submission form and mail it. All submissions need to be in by 20 March.

... and further to that, the cover letter says 20 March, but the actual submission form says 5 March? Better safe than sorry. I have made a template of how they want the submission laid out have made copies of this and the submission forms, address, fax no etc. I'll keep them in my car. If you see me at the beach, ask me and I'll give you one (and a submission form too ).

Bit of a typo on their form 5 march is a sunday for starters and as for the year 200?

For those that havent read it the thread that started it all is here
www.kiteforum.co.nz/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1534&start=15

How I see it ...

This clearly states that the vessels may APPROACH the transition zone in excess of 5 knots , not transition thru the zone at 5+. This i think is a reference to crossing the actual bar where speed is nessecary



these two go hand in hand, transiting vessels must maintain a course so it makes sense to not impede them in any way.




This was discussed at the meeting and to do anything else is suicidal, remember they are required to maintain a course and the less they have to stop for you the quicker they are gone.




This is a local coloquialism has got to go, The "joggle" can exist anywhere in the transition zone, it depends on the time and tide. This makes more sense if they define the no go area as the section of the bar where the boats make the actual crossing before they enter the transition zone, more specifically the intersection of the bar and the channel, That was the area that was talked about at the meeting, the one place for a boat where there is no margin for error and no turning back

Hey Mark, I'm impressed by your interpretation of that Transition Zone shite, I could not make sense of it - your explaination makes sense.... But it seems that the wording of this bylaw is very open to mis-interpretation for your avg. Boatie, Kiter, or Poley.

I went to a Raglan coastguard meeting last month to discuss this bylaw with the guys there and the general consensus was that the Maritime laws
about Power Vs. Sail operating in a navigation channel were all the laws that were neccesary.

Interestingly there was a show of support/respect for how we have conducted ourselves so far and a fair amount of derision directed towards the amature sports fishermen that have brought this whole stupid bylaw upon us.

I have been reading the other pages concerning Bar crossings and there is new legislation to give the Harbour master more power to "close" the bar to recreational fishing boats when the conditions are marginal.
This will be due to the many boating accidents that have happened here because of unwary and foolish people in power boats with very little understanding or respect of the sea.

So yeah, I think the word "joggle" and any other misleading things about speeding have got to be removed from the bylaw.

Maritime law should always prevail when you're on the water .

How can some Local Body Politic like E.W. tell us how to operate when they don't even understand it... if they had their way we'd all be signing off indemnity clauses, paying for insurance meters, wearing lifejackets.

What you gotta do if you want to stay safe while riding Raglan estuary in the future.

1..Phone 0800 800 401 and ask for Shelley Monrad
2..Ask her to send you a submission form in the post
(leave a message with your request and address ph. no. if she is not there)
3..Fill it in and send it back to so it arrives before March the 20th
simple....

____________________________________________________

These are the exact changes that Shelly said will effect us if the proposed changes go through>>>>>>>>


www.ew.govt.nz/policyandplans/navigation/proposed/bylaw.8.htm

Point 10 is the one that may end up targeting specifically kitesurfers...

On the web page anything crossed out is going to be removed

anything in italic may be added - ie these parts
________________________________________________________

1.."The priority use for this area is a transit area for vessels entering or departing the harbour and it is recognised that boats may approach this area at speed in excess of 5 knots. "

My opinion - This is ridiculous and goes against current rules that are more than effective. In fact there is no doubt that a law change like this will increase the danger to both parties (ie kites and powered boats)
Increased danger due to -

NO SPEED RESTRICTIONS FOR POWERED BOATS PASSING KITERS - THAT IS SIMPLY MADNESS

IF A KITESURFER WERE HIT BY AN INCOMPETENT BOAT USER - IT WOULD BE THE KITESURFERS FAULT

SOME KITESURFERS USE THE AREA THEMSELVES AS A TRANSIT AREA!

____________________________________________________________

2. "any other users in this area must not obstruct or impede any vessel that is transiting through the zone. "

THIS SAYS NOTHING DIFFERENT TO POINT 1.

__________________________________________________________

3. "all power driven vessels transiting the area must maintain their course. Any kite surfers or board sailers operating in this area shall keep out of the path of any transiting vessel and shall give way to all transiting boats. "

"must maintain their course" - Another simple example of increased danger due to possible new legislation.
____________________________________________________________

4. "No kite surfers or board sailers shall operate in the "joggle".

We can certainly question the spelling of sailors!!

Less than 3 weeks until submission deadline and there is not even a explaination to exactly what the joggle is on the schedule....

The clause is a classic - "we don't understand the issue - so ban it".. - so not in line with the kiwi way of thinking! ..

NJOI!

I think they need to change the defined area of the transition zone, It would make more sense to have it further out the channel closer to the bar.

The defined area is huge and most of it boats would fear to go.
Make it Extend 200/300m directly inside the bar up the channel

Call the " joggle" the bar area that intesects the channel markers and make it a no go area for kites, this is the last area you want to break a line and tangle with a boats prop

Why ban kiting from any area at all? There is no groovy spot to break a line.

I was thinking from a boating point of veiw, for a kiter it just means a long swim home. For a boat crossing the bar to be suddenly hamstrung by 100m of spectra with a 16m sea anchor attached it could mean the loss of a $50K boat or maybe a few lives

Hey Mark !

You're forgetting that under the new bylaw swimming is illegal in this area, so broken lines /damaged kites, self rescues & swimming scenarios anywhere the 1 sq km, ( This huge area inside the bar they have earmarked "JOGGLE" is perfectly safe to navigate, I have seen alot of boats anchor and fish there for that matter.) are now punishable offences incurring up to $10,000 in fines or 6 months in prison.



Well said Ian....

This quote sums up our difficulty, as a group of sailors, in comprehending why E.W. need to try and impose laws on one group of water user, when we are just another "vessel" operating legally under existing maritime navigational laws.

For 20 yrs Windsurfers and more recently (in the last 6yrs) Kiters have been using the " Transition Zone " to get to the Bar and beaches and neither have had any collisions or obstructed any boats crossing the bar.

I had not forgotten, i just thought it would be a bit pedantic, the same could be said about the kiters passing each other at >5 knots and 20m apart
This review/submission is not about excluding users from a certain area, its about making the waterways safe for everyone.
I think the transition zone and the joggle is a nonsense as well but I also think that crossing the raglan bar is a serious undertaking and minimising the risk to life has to be taken seriously as well, if you have ever navigated it you will know what i mean

Why on earth would you want to impose or even have the potential ability to a fine or imprison a swimmer in this area - they are only a danger to themselves and there are enough signs that make it very obvious that it is not such a wise activity...

Is someone trying to protect people from their own stupidity cos if laws like this go through everyone will end up with no common sense because they will presume someone else will tell them what to do to look after themselves - the next stage will be someone sueing because their reli drowned in another area and Environment Waikato did not make a law against swimming there. Utter madness..... Had to check for april 1st...

As for the potential of a kiter righting off a $50 000 boat due to tangling that has never ever happened - we are talking just 200kg breaking strain line and very vunerable unprotected rider vs a huge hulk of fibreglass or aluminium with a motor possessing hugely powerful momentum

Who are your odds on for suffering the most damage...

Considering the above it has always been in our own interest to to be cautious around transiting motor powered vessels and it is painfully obvious that this is already the case if you were to watch when the occasional transiting motor powered vessel through kiters.


Giving the boats the right to go faster than they need to go (ie 5knots+ the current against them) will increase the dangers not decrease them.

Exception: If the most effective and safe action for both parties is for the motor powered vessel to go faster than this f eg to avoid a wave, surge, or stray surfer for example. Then I would expect that a competent skipper would have more than enough common sense to do so...

more legislation than really needed to keep the status quo leads to unhappier lives - believe me... maybe a big beer party for kiters, windsurfers, and fishing club members would be the simple answer - who knows maybe some are from both groups...

NJOI

You gotta send your letter/submission to arrive by this monday 5:00pm(20th march)....

Address to send it to:

Attn. Shelley Monrad
Chief Executive
Waikato Regional Council
PO Box 4010
401 Grey Street
Hamilton East

or fax to 07 8560551

you can use this form to fill in

www.ew.govt.nz/policyandplans/navigation...safetysubmission.pdf