Was a bit shocked to find the signboard below at Mangawhai estuary last week!.... is this the thin edge of the wedge again... first and foremost kitesurfers do not surf the dunes so why the heck are we included on a list of banned activities that obviously cause harm to nesting birds ...vehicles / horses / shooting / dogs

secondly what caused this ban ... or is it simply that some DOC representative couldnt stand the sight of kiters having a ball and decided to spoil the party!

thirdly..how far does this ban extend... if I sail along the shore line am I going to have an irate DOC worker chasing me down...

and why the heck was the only vehicle I saw on the dunes a quad bike being ridden by a DOC worker.... isnt the no vehicle rule good for all!!


THIS BAN APPEARS TO BE A BREACH OF OUR RIGHTS THAT APPEARS TO HAVE NO REAL DEFINED BOUNDARY! ..... AND SHOULD BE PROTESTED .... I INTEND TO AND HOPE OTHERS DO THE SAME!
Chris

check the link for the new DOC signboard at Mangawhai

www.seabreeze.com.au/Media/View/3381662/...te-ban-at-Mangawhai/

I think the big problem we have as kiters is that there are not well set up local clubs that can be contacted and a representative can attend local meetings about bans etc.

Probably what happened here is that a ignorant decision was made without consulting the kiting public.

the more info the better here.

what where the reasons for the Ban CT?

If someone can tell me how to add an image here I will put a picture up of the signboards along the estuary... they show a map of the spit with the usual banned activities ie dogs guns fires and vehicles but now they have a great logo of a kitesurfer with a big red slash thru it!!! I have heard nothing from the locals but this appears to be another insidious attack on our rights without consultation

Chris

GO BOY GO

YEP THAT SUX A FATONE, im not even from your area, but fully agree with u CT

If we dont do something now as local and national kiting communities we will find that there will be more and more bans every where.

i think it comes down to some of the public not understanding our sport, and as we jump around with a board and probally get seen out riding when we should be "working" we are looked at as bums who have no respect.

the fact of the matter is that i have seen more projects by kiters helping the enviroment and local areas than any other sports EG pt chev shell removal, rubbish clean ups, dune plantings etc etc etc , and not to mention the fundrasing events for charity too

if the groups who want to put in place the bans would only work with the kiters they would probally find that there are alot of kiters who would be willing to donate time and effort in helping to protect the local areas.

after all we are probally one of the more eco friendly sports around

mmmmm makes ya think

rock on

Below the mean high tide mark here (The seabed and foreshore) you have equal rights to other New Zealanders in enjoying recreational activities.

Also there is no way that there is a law saying that if you can walk on the dunes, that you cannot do so with a kite in the air; however, most riders I know , also know that the less human disturbance that occurs on the dunes (and kiters certainly make up a very small proportion of it compared to other recreational users) - the better it is for the for the dotterals and fairy turns etc especially nesting time September - March and don't go on the dunes other than to sit at the waters edge to rest or access the sea - which is a waste of time usually as the estuary is nearly always better.

I certainly don't want anyone saying they ever represent me as a kitesurfer claiming to be some sort of club, nz will turn into the bloody europe in time, and everything will end up being controlled by a bunch of totally incompetent clueless idiots, licenses/ insurance to ride, have to wear a fluro pink rash vest, conflicts of interest with businesses (even kitesurfing ones)/ money involved- noooooooooooo thanks - I will stick with the true kiwi freedom thanks where you have a choice of what you do, represent yourself, and have a true belief in personal responsibility and its merits compared to a repressive society / law driven police state , are educated about issues and have mutual respect.

I am an individual and can stick up for my own rights but will also take the time to explain how others can stick up for theirs and help educate - the internet serves this purpose today very well. No new laws ever come into effect in NZ without your right to first lodge an objection.

Kitesurfers are recreational users of the seabed and foreshore and have equal rights to other recreational users of the seabed and foreshore - that will never change.

The spot is good sometimes but normally very fickle anyway what with bad tides, gusty winds and very unfortunate wind directions.

The real worry here for all kiters is that now that DOC have their cute little sticker made up for the signboard ... how many other spots will they start plastering them around...
Ian despite the fickle winds mangawhai is a magical place to get out in the surf break and cruise the coast in a west or sou west... hard to get out and hence my issue with DOCs ban... often I have to launch in the estuary then walk over the dunes to get out into the ocean... and I do no more harm than any other person walking across the dunes...
the ban remains ill considered and unjustified and we need to stop the rot spreading!

Hi CT,

I'm new to the kite scene, but this sounds like one of those things that start giving kiters a bad name. It's not what the sport needs and it's must be some bureaucratic person who labels every person that's seen on the beach and not walking a dog or playing in the sand a culprit. May be worth a letter to to your areas MP?

To answer the question about getting a picture on here you can host pictures free at imageshack.us/ and then just paste the link it gives you in your next post.

thanks... have pasted on seabreeze forum

www.seabreeze.com.au/Media/View/3381662/...te-ban-at-Mangawhai/


hopefully DOC dont start stamping out this little image all over NZ!

Letter to DOC Head office and Whangarei branch... I am interested to see their response!



I am writing to find out why a ban on kiteboarding has been placed on the
Mangawhai River estuary sanctuary as indicated by your Signboards located
alongside the river. A photo of the sign board is attached!
This action appears to have been taken without notification or publication of
intent to not only the general public but in particular the kiting community in
general.
To add kiteboarders to a group of banned activities including horseriding/
shooting/ lighting fires/ motorbike riding and 4Wdriving is bizarre in the
least part as kiteboarding is a water based activity NOT A LANDBASED ACTIVITY!
I would go as far as to demand that DOC remove the sign until they at least
understand the sport and have fully consulted with the wider community!

Can you please give me full details as to why this ban was put in place and
justify your reasons for doing so?
I fully understand the need to protect endangered wildlife along this pristine
coastline and as a local with over 50 years personal connection to the
Mangawhai region and a family history that goes back well over a 130 years I
find this action an abuse of privilege that all kiwis enjoy and a slap in the
face for our protection of this unique area throughout that period! As keen
sailors, windsurfers and kiters we find the actions of DOC in adding this
kiting ban to the area a sneaky and low handed attempt to control an activity
that I suspect they do not understand!
Kiteboarders will only ever go ashore for the occasional rest or to adjust
equipment while sailing at which times their kites usually remain in the air..
occasionally they will cross the sand bar to enter the ocean... again the kite
is keep in the air as they walk across the sand! this is no different to a
member of the public walking through the area.


Kitesurfing is a noiseless and almost wake less activity that creates zero
discharge of any pollutant... far more environmentally friendly than the many
power craft that use the waterways, and given that the kiter spends 99 percent
of their time on the water they create far less disturbance than that family
groups that stop to ski and wakeboard with many wandering the dunes during the
day!

I would also note that during the last week a DOC worker was repeatedly seen
using a quad bike in the dunes to access nesting areas, and on several
occasions I noted dotterels, oyster catchers and other birds disturbed by this
noisy intrusion on the landscape! Why do DOC workers consider themselves above
their own law and less disturbing than other users?

Again I request that this nonsensical ban be removed immediately, and look
forward to your notification that it has been removed.

Ian i understand you don't want someone acting on your behalf. However the needs of the many out way the needs of the few.

So.... if you are acting by yourself and then the bird watching activists are lobying for a combined group of 30000 people who's needs will be considered first? the need of the 1 or the need of the many? now if a representative of the kitesurfing public could present the few of 30000 kite surfers then we have a fair fight.

CT i'd tone that leter down and ask questions without getting loud to start with. If you go in all guns blazing then you stand to offend whoever made the ruling in the first place.

You have to first Bureaucracy with Bureaucracy.

Be nice ask innocent questions, get the answeres go to the next level up etc etc. also being able to provide solutions will also help. find out the reason for the ban and provide a solution. maybe set up pack up further down the beach? etc.

The tone probably reflects my feelings about how DOC are seen to operate at times on a national level... there is a tendancy for a department like this to attract the ardent protectionists who firmly believe that humans should be confined to fenced boardwalks and never be allowed to wander unaided for fear of trampling our flora and fauna underfoot, to often they are driven by one or two loud voices and the kneejerk reaction results in exactly what we see here... this ban probably resulted because a bird was seen to fly away as a kite passed by the area or worse because a DOC worker ' thought' the kites might disturb the birds ... I have walked those dunes all my life enjoying the nesting birds and beauty of the spot as did my parents and my children... and the one constant is that the birds always return to nest despite DOCs best attempts to scare them off with fences and signs everywhere!
You might chuckle but I have seen DOC fence off a nesting area only to see it disappear under water as the tide came in!
So my tone may seem hard but why should I not question in detail what appears to be a ban set in motion by a whimsical notion from an overly protective worker who draws a wage from my taxes!

i'm still giggling at the little graphic.... are you guys sure that's kite surfing??????



i wouldn't get too stressed about it. maybe don't kite the puddle in the middle which is pretty nasty with algae anyways.

I thought it looked a bit like Gav as he got launched by a huge gust unhooked last year!...

there is a danger in allowing the sign to remain, the worry is that once a notice like this is posted that doesnt even define the limits and ignores the fact that we dont kitesurf on land ...any local up there will start ringing DOC to pimp us out...and what are the limits? give a little power and watch it get abused... will they throw the book at us for sitting on the shoreline...or even kiting close to shore.... it needs to be nipped in the bud now

all i'm trying to say is if you can get your point across without too much abusive wording it may be more well recieved and get better action than an enraged letter.
from experience enraged actions only prompt enraged actions.

put it another way. how do you feel right now? enraged because you haven't been consulted? what if you were kitesurfing and got a serve from a local doc guy would you want to give him a serve back?

no yelling will get you no where. infact it will only agrivate the situation. calm yourself down and become part of the solution not part of the problem.

"we need to stop the rot spreading!"

you are so right - they can't just stick up a sign and think they can get away with it pretending there is some kind of law in place! Its an outrage that the sign was put up like that. There is another similar location that I am not going to name because I really don't think it helps plastering the names of these riding places all over forums - at least there they put up more of an educational sign for people from maybe overseas that don't know it is not a great idea to go tramping over the dunes in breeding season...

"So.... if you are acting by yourself and then the bird watching activists are lobying for a combined group of 30000 people who's needs will be considered first? the need of the 1 or the need of the many? now if a representative of the kitesurfing public could present the few of 30000 kite surfers then we have a fair fight."

Don't agree, the whole issue affects all recreational users not just kitesurfers and their numbers and power are huge, as I said below the mean high water mark is for the enjoyment of all New Zealanders and it will stay that way. It is not the New Zealand way to target one group of recreational enthusiasts. DOC has to be careful because if starts getting disproportionally and unreasonably heavy handed they risk a backlash from reasonable people - and is not teh kind of feeling that anyone wants to have. You pay for DOC.

DOC spent 7 years breeding Kiwis up North successfully and dogs ate the lot in one night. These kind of predators are off the scale. There is no evidence whatsoever that kites scare birds - I have been kiting for 8 years and I will swear an oath that birds do not think kites are birds of prey in my experience. They are no more spooked by a kite than a person - and that person is walking on the land and a kite on the WATER!

other bad things for birds, rats - I have seen them running around at Mangawhai! ruts created by 4wds that chicks can fall into as well as humans stepping on eggs, algal blooms, and poisonous sea slugs (loads of dead birds washed up this summer), storms that wipe out sand banks - they have a rough time - kitesurfers just don't come into the equation.

It is all about one retired lady from Forest and Bird that moved to NZ recently from England that pesters DOC and local authorities - this is what it is about - she has it in for kitesurfers - even tried to cut their lines with scissors! She has been reported to the police. She got an article published in the Herald by a freelance Australian journalist that said kitesurfers were tramping on Godwits eggs - they don't even lay in New Zealand. She is responsible for speading lies and hate towards kitesurfer through that inaccurate Herald article and it does not help for the general consensus from the public because they might even beleive Godwits lay eggs in NZ and kitesurfers go around tramping them. Especially as kitesurfer are involved in one of the most environmentally friendly fuel free recreations around.

If you get harrassed or theatened - you also need to do the same.

DOC worker on a quad on the dune - are you serious!!!

Thing is all this stuff takes time to sort out. The lady in question above is retired and has all the time in the world to cause you a headache, so we have no choice but to have to waste our time responding to absolute lies when we could be doing something more useful like earning money for our families or enjoying our recreation and freedom.

yep kilters are rebels by nature and its true that only people with a financial stake in kiting will be bothered getting off their butts to defend something for more than a few letters. In the USA a kite rider got banned and fined by a ranger for kiting in the park land, the kilters formed a fund and backed the guy so well the case was thrown out of court and the decision reversed with prejudice, meaning NO one could ever fine a kiter again for the simple activity of kiting , it set a legal precedent and can now be used to defend future cases much more easily. The truth is there are NO conclusive studies saying that kiting scares the birds away and that smoking kills people so if you have the funding then you can get the same sort of decision for all NZ against
DOC. Although i suspect it would need to go outside nz to win !! If DOC have banned kiters with out studies it would be easy to get the ban lifted and then throw a shot back at them with our own study. Who knows someone that can perform a study, uni students , post grad etc ? hard to find someone to advocate kiting if they are an animal lover though perhaps ?

Anything that stands out currently is getting hammered, MX bikes Jet skis Road bikes , 4x4's its basically majority rules. The good news is the people protecting and the birds are all on limited lifespans, most of the vocal ones are retired with bugger all better to do.

i could fly off the handle too , but it does get you now where. im told insect spray works wonders on birds but ive never seen a kite kill one !! i doubt i ever will.

I know its slightly off topic, but I was approached by one of the guys at work last week who is on the NZ triathlon team. He knows me in the office as the resident kiter and wanted to have a chat......

He had photos and video footage of kitesurfers running amok on Takapuna beach, there were many near misses and some of the triathletes and locals have got together and are considering a formal complaint. Apparently one of the kiters went up to a bunch of people at the Hauraki Road end and started yelling at them to get out of the way and waving at them. He says a number of kiters flew along the sand near the waters edge with their kites low in the window over the beach. This as expected caused alarm amongst the beach users.

I was there (it was wednesday 20th Jan 2010) and saw a number of the kiters dodge in and around swimmers including children well - at times less than 5 meters away.

None of the peeps I saw close in were beginners. So its not like it was accidental or anything.

It looks like the evidence gathering is going to mean we get the spotlight onto us and perhaps a ban during the summer at Taka.

Rules that should be adhered to:

- Avoid swimmers and other water users by at least 50m. Treat them with respect and they will treat you with respect
- Launch and get out into deeper water asap
- Be very careful waveriding. If there are other water users around, probably an activity for another day
- Don't fly your kite low over the beach
- If you see a misbehaving kiter, say hi and let them know what they did wrong
- Have fun!

amusingly a seagull hit one of my lines last week. could have been the worlds first bird/kite fatality.... but luckily the bird flew off.

i've also noted on many occasions birds flying close to and trying to dive bomb my manta (which has a giant birdlike picture on it!). so i'd say they do get worried about kites. but so what those birds can get over it! afterall they are just bird.
We should eat them! thats the best way to ensure dangered animals don't become extinct. Do you see any chickens in danger? cows for that matter?

i suggest you submit a preposal to re-instate kiting and comence the eating of these birds all at once....

hahaha.....

hohoho.

hehhehe.

the boy racers of kiting eh ?

No clubs, no organisation, its a joke

Bans will happen its just a matter of time.

Kite surfers need their own area to use, it works pretty well at orewa but the council is behind the kite surfers there. Its time they started to issue fines to idiots, 1 week confiscation of kites etc. Remember Most of us don't do these stupid acts , its just a few .

For the last 10 years kitesurfers have promoted self responibility and it has worked just fine. If you see riders risking others it is your responsibilty to talk to them in a friendly informative way, I have friends from years back that I first met like this. Also if you mess up - you are on your own, and rightly so. Kitesurfing is an individual persuit with self responsibilities.

Like I say - you go around it the right way (ie friendly) you will find the rider really appreciates the advice.

Many riders in NZ do more than they get credit for in working to keep kitesurfing respected by other beach users/ recreational users, and in keeping the freedom to enjoy our recreation. They also communicate with authorities when issues arise. We also have a good realtionship with the harbourmasters who keep us informed here about any issues we can help deal with.

Heh team,

Just chill its not targetting kitesurfers but all users CROSSING the dunes. As one of the few local kiters there its about respect. If you want to surf the ocean side launch at the surf club or drift launch at the point in picnic bay and Kite across.Currently guys are leaping off the dune and transitting through the main breeding area of Fairy terns of which there are only five breeding pairs left at Mangawhai and are on the endangered list.

The Mangawhai community for a long time have welcomed all water users, the upper harbour is a ski land from the yellow buoy so you can play as much as you like. If you have any doubt where to go just come and ask down the surf club (like the boys did on Sat and the guards looked after there wagon.)

So kite in the water, launch from the houses side of the estuary and dont be lazy kite around dont transit across

Ferg

Hi All,
DOC, it stands for a few things and none are really fit to publish here. All i can say from my dealings with DOC here at Tongariro National Park is they make the rules to suit themselves. They can do anything they like if it involves "Management of the DOC area".

My suggestion is start with looking at the "DOC Management Plan" for Mangawhai. It will most likley state - No Vehichles, Cycles, motorised contraptions it may even say no foot traffic - It won't state Kitesurfers, kites, kitebuggies or paragliders. Of course they can change the plan but it takes years and is open to public consultation. Try and object and you'll go around in circles for years and they will hide behind red tape.

How about - Make a little round sticker up with a old wrinkled biddy with binocs and a line through it, stick that on the board.

Just remember the department of Confrontation always loves a good argument so make sure you are prepared.

Better yet stay airborne, DOC has no control over air space, they are there to manage land in the interests of ALL New Zealanders.

Like Ferg has said, stay out of the dunes and everyone should be happy.

quoting 'Just chill its not targetting kitesurfers but all users CROSSING the dunes. As one of the few local kiters there its about respect'

sorry this has nothing to do with respect! and it doesnt target all users ... it singles out kiteboarders and puts them in the firing line alongside dogs /fires/ motorbikes...

But my argument has got more to do with a signboard showing a kiter on the water with a banned cross through it! ... and public perception....

how does joe blow public read the sign... " no kiteboarding allowed " there is no defined boundary so where are the kiteboarders not allowed?

leave that signboard in place and it wont be just one old biddy waving her stick at the 'local' kitesurfer but it will be every second member of the public who saw the sign ..spotted a kitesurfer on the water and then gets on the blower to complain!
and just remember its the squeaky hinge that gets oiled first!
I am not sure how you define 'respect' but you have to remember it applies equally to both sides of the argument... DOC must respect our rights as much as we already respect the local environment...

and yes there are many ways to access the ocean beach but I dont want to see a day come where myself or my kids are banned from kiteing or any other watersport around the sanctuary because of public perception instigated by a DOC signboard that kiters are a menace!

Hi Guys,

I had a chat with Abby Meagher from DOC yesterday - the person with the day to day responsibilities for managing the Fairy Terns at Waipu and Managawhai.

DOC have no issue with kiteboarders using the estuary at Managawhai, and this sign/sticker is NOT the start of a ban of us using that piece of water.

However the SAND DUNES between the estuary and ocean at Managawhai is one of only three locations where the NZ Fairy Tern breed. With only 40 birds left and 5 breeding pairs DOC put a huge amount of effort into helping the Fairy Tern survive. DOC do not want any disturbance in this area - including kiters using the pond in the dunes or walking through the dunes with a kite flying.

The sign does define the sand spit in the picture as the area of concern, but where the sign is placed (on the in-land side of the estuary) could cause confusion. With the feedback that has just come through from us a better defined sign may be possible in the future. However the bottom line is and ALWAYS will be:

STAY OFF THE DUNES AT MANAGAWHAI

If anyone wants to talk to DOC about this sign, Fairy Terns or any other issue with riders using Managawhai Estuary you can contact Abby on:

This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. or phone her at the Whangarei Area Office 09 470 3304

Cheers

Dave Kay