Just to spark some controversy:

I own 5 kites, a 4m, 5.7m, 10m, 16m mix of Wipikas/Cabrinha/Naish but have barely flown these myself since I got a 13metre Ozone Instinct Sport a year ago. So what's your primo kite and its wind range?

Lets go for two numbers:
1. <<the full kiteable wind-range i.e. up-and-planing---->maxed-out-super-jumps>>
... aka. the max conditions, before you called it a day and went back to your knitting, while you still had all your bones intact>

2. [the optimal wind-range for best performance i.e. from decent planing power --up to--> large controlled boosts]]

I'll put up:


Ozone Instinct Sport 13m <<8 - 40 knots>> [15 - 30+ knots]]

You will spark some contraversy alright claiming wind ranges like that.
You would have to be a real light weight to get going in 8 and then suddenly grow into the fattest b@$#@*d to hold a 13m down in 40.
Forgive my sceptisism.

Dixie,

You need to try an Ozone, the progressive trim system they have for the 5th line gives them the widest sweet range of any kite on the market.

I wouldn't claim 8-40 myself, but sized correctly and with two boards 10-30 is what all the locals get out of their Ozones.

Cheers

DK

Big fella on an '07 11m Ozone Instinct Edge here and I easily get 15 to +40knots out of it. Sub 15knots I have to change to a skim or surfboard or I'd swap to my 16m Crossbow instead.

I have not seen any guys out on a 13m in 40+ knots - I am struggling to hold on to my 6 in anything 35+!

in happy on a 12mtr in 10-30 kts in a nice place, but if it was dodgy conditions or a high risk location id change down, but i wiegh 60kg wet and my fav ride is only a 119X38 twintip, lol twintip (classic ole school) :wink:

Have to agree with Jamie, he knows a thing or two about kiting. I don't think many people have any idea what a true 40 knots of wind actually feels like. 40 knots equals you can barely stand or see on the beach and no way are you holding onto a 13m kite!
During my recent foray into speed kiting I have been chasing those 35+ knot days and have yet to experience one in the last 6 month.
Awhile back I had a sess during a squally westerly day with winds in the 10 to 15 knots in the lulls which tempted a bunch of guys to go out on 11m and 12 kites. I was there for the speed and the inevitable rain squalls that were coming thru every half an hour or so and rigged a 7m. Under power at first obviously but within half an hour the squalls hit and took less than 2 minutes to clean every single 11m and 12 m kite off the water including a couple of Instincts. Not pretty or safe and quite a few people clearly have no idea how to cope with these types of situations. Fortunately and surprisingly no one got hurt although some kites did not survive.
Realistically the wind during the squall was high 20's to 35 knot max although I'm sure there are several people who were there telling the story of the day they survived a 45knot day on there 11m.
Can you pass me another Tui's please!

ha ha .. fair 'nuf, - tho I never said 40+

I bow to Gav's experience in the 40's ...

Someone measured 33 knots on the beach and there were stronger squalls blowing through ... and it was never pretty, although happily flying depowered, and still able to control the kite with one hand
(...although it may have been the slingshot board on my feet Gav)

- genuinely interested in your best kite's range tho'

The instinct is definitely a top end machine, but at the low end, they don't seem to be as happy relative to some other brands/models ...

i have only once kited in 35knots+ and it was fairly intense.

Its not really that fun, i was freaking out wondering what was going to happen next.

tee baggin to change direction = time to pull the pin.

without a 5th line i would have been toast, as this was the only way to land kite, knowbody is going to try and catch you when you cant even stop yourself.

I can appreciate that the new kites out there have alot more de-power but in reality kiting in these conditions should be avoided.

Unless your feeling bulletproof and have not had a decent kite in months in which case knowbody is prob going to be able to talk you out of it.

BE THE TEST GIMP, everybody else can sit in there cars watching to see if you get wrecked.

Can't say I'm that interested in excessive range. If I'm free-styling or surfing I generally take the smallest Rev possible to stay powered and unhook comfortably. If I'm speed kiting then it's a 9m or a 7m depending whether its windy or really windy.
If I wanted range I'd pick the Slingshot 5m T2/T3 for 10knots to 40 knots plus...
But here's the thing, range really isn't about size or this kite or that kite, its about the riders skill and experience not to mention the individuals personal level of what he/she may consider incredibly lame at one end of the scale to incredibly dangerous at the other end.
I should perhaps bow to you with your 13m in almost 40knots and one handed to boot!(how does one bow to a Pee in cyberspace?) But mostly I just worry that some poor soul is going to listen to you and kill himself next time it really blows.

That last line of yours in right on the mark Gavin, I have been kiting for 10 years and I would not dream of putting anything up in 40 knots and unless I'm on a board that is the size of a boat I can not get moving in 8 knots on a 13m LEI ( I'm 90kg tho ).
I now fly a Flysurfer Speed 2 12m and they quote 8- 28 knots usable wind range. I put this up in close to its supposedly higher wind range, result, one serious lofting followed by a hard landing and a pulled safety.
I was lucky, a less experienced flyer could have got himself into serious trouble.
If you think its too windy for the size of kite you have, it probably is. Always err on the side of caution, and don't believe everything the manufacturers quote.

I have been kiting for near 10 years now, the most wind I have been in that was recorded (video & wind meter) was 48 knots.
I was on a 9M Helix totally maxed, bar right out and fully de-powered, all I could do was ride up wind - straight upwind! And boost insanely big. I can also work this kite in around 10 knots too.

But that is not what good kiteboarding is about.
Every kite has a sweet spot relative to the wind strength, riding skill and style. Within a 5 knot range this kite sweet spot is where everything is perfect - jumping or what ever you’re into is at ease.
No fighting the kite and no working the kite. We all know a good session when we have them.

I own and ride three kites, I like to ride the smallest I can without having to work the kite. I could get away with two kites very easily, but I chose not too.
Like Gavin I'm that interested in excessive range either, you need the right kite for the right job.

That works for me.

Shane A

ok lets not get emotional now, its REALY about humidity, did i spell that wright, or densitity to be presice , how heavy the wind is, if you could weight it that is, which you cant so dont try ,a humid ( wet ) 10 kts IS NOT the same as a ( dry) 10 kts, not when your flying a presure sensitive wing (kite ),attached to strings. kinda like,when at school we used to throw wet tennis balls at eachother, it hurt more cause it was heavier, ie the humid ( WET ) wind has more weight so more effect ( PULL ) on your kite. b safe uall 8)

the strongest wind I kitesurfed in was probably down at Oreti beach in Invercargill. It was measured at 42kt on a handheld windmeter.

I was fully powered on a 13m Venom. Full depower. On a 110cm board. Rider 125kg.

The thing was that the wind was so perfectly steady that it felt like 15 knots, the kite was just sitting there.

That was a great session. Warm, windy, steady...

On a big enough board I could squeeze a session in 15 knots out of that same kite.

The other session started with being launched clear over a PL Kitecat in well over 50kts by a 1.5m PL Pepper on handles.

I've also been pung by a 1.3m PL T-arc trainer one handed with no harness while trying to mtb in about 50kts.

I really really need some strong wind and soon.
Craig

no so johnie. dry air is heavier than moist air. i won't bore you with the intricacies of atmospheric chemistry, you'll have to look it up.

also i'd seriously call the accuracy of those hand held wind meter thingys in anything over 25-30kts.

"no so johnie. dry air is heavier than moist air. i won't bore you with the intricacies of atmospheric chemistry, you'll have to look it up."
did u try 2 weight it?
so does that make a cup of water lighter then a cup ?, hummm
u sound well educated shaner, where did u get ur info, the "youll have to look it up" statment make me think probably from a book but im guessin, anyway the point is 10 kts one day may not be the same the as 10 kts the next day.

"also i'd seriously call the accuracy of those hand held wind meter thingys in anything over 25-30kts. "

this i do agree with but in the end it not about accuracy, its about gettin 2 know wat u can fly when your thingys say "this much wind makes me do this" after abit of time the translation becomes accurate. 8)

Up until recently I had an 06 8m octane which would go upwind in 15knts on a surfboard and handle 40knts.

Replaced the octane with an 08 6m Nano. It goes upwind in less wind than the octane and feels good in 35knts. Haven't had more than 35 yet but I think 40++ will be no problems.

The most range is always going to be a bigger board and smaller kite.

Surfboards can hold a lot more power in rough water than TT.

You will hold more power on flat water riding upwind than you will in side shore riding down wind.

The key to range is to get the kite and board combo working for your weight and size.

I'll bore you!!!
I,m an aircraft engineer and work with jet engines all the time so here is the deal regarding density.
When a jet engine is operating in hot and high areas the compressor does not have enough air to compress because the air does not have enough density (substance if you like) its too hot and dry.
The answer is to cool the air down, we do this by spraying a water methonal mix into the front of the compressor. this cools down the air to make it more dense, therefore the compressor has more air to compress.
So basically as we prooved when I lived in fiji, for any given wind speed there will be more power in a cooler, wetter air than there will be in a hot dry air.
We had the best winds in Fiji in the winter (cooler air temps) than we had in the summer (hotter air temps) simply because of the air density.
A 15 knot wind in the winter we were really cranking, but a 15 knot wind in the summer seemed to have half the power.
Hope that sorts that
Cheers
Dixie

PeeHunter I agree with Westwaves, if you want to get more range from your kite you cant beat a surfboard.... I stopped riding TT 3 years ago, my biggest kite ( C-kite ) is 7.5m my other kite is 5.5m I have different size/shape surfboards.... For me this equipment covers 15-40kts & I ride fixed-bar,unstrapped,
unhooked 95%

Also I am agreeing with Gav - You would be better off in 30+ knots choosing a more appropriately sized kite than a 13m. I would suggest your kites comfortable/useable range would be more like 8-25kts.

Are these just normal surf boards or are they modified in any way, ie footstraps etc.
I like the idea of using smaller kites, but I love jumping, not sure I could do that on a standard surf board.

TT's are perfect for jumps & rotations - thats what they are designed for.

Aside from aerials off the lip of a wave I'm more into riding waves than jumping - but there are guys out there doing freestyle-type jumps with surfboards. Do a search on you-tube for TopHat & Felix/strapless/ surfboards.

The boards I ride are the same as what I use to surf, 6'-7'

Those boys have a lot of skill. I've got a 6' 6" old surf board in the shed, maybe I will take it next time I go, just for the laugh.... looks like fun

I have always ridden strapped surfboards that are strong enough to jump, mind you its the landings that break boards not the jumping.

There are a lot of kite specific surfboards now that can handle regular jumping, back rolls etc, but landing powered kite loops hard would break most surfboards.

For powered up riding most surfboards go better with a smaller rear fin.

I'll bore you!!!
I,m an aircraft engineer and work with jet engines all the time so here is the deal regarding density.

dear dixie, ur not boring me, im not a aircraft engineer but i know theres a diffrence between wet and dry winds, pls excuse me if ive got them mixed up, but it now seams my buddy pete could use his 13 mtr in 40 kts, hes a engineer too, that could be it ... 8) ps, and he started this bloody thread lol.

Well im not as experienced in kiting as most of the people in this thread....but i have found i can greatly increase the wind range of my kite by flying long lines in light winds and shorter lines in higher winds.

I am pretty light tho so on my 10.5 ion2 i start getting pretty maxed out at about 25-27knots. Maybe some 15m lines? Or just a smaller kite... Will see how many strong wind days we have this summer before i decide.

Go the short lines - most underrated kite modification in kiteboarding.

LOL... I knew it would spark some debate. OK lets say he can hold a 13m in 40kts. I'm still not going to try it.........I still think its asking for trouble!!!

i gotta agree bro,it just makes kite loops harder to get through, i gotta do them higher in the window now and it tends to get messy, jezzz i wish i was 20 years younger, the poor ole bod cant take the hits anymore. 8)

I reckon pee_hunta is supplementing his 70ish kgs with a kid down the front of his wettie and one down the back. Helps him get out the house and the bulge impresses the ladies. Good on ya mate.

ha ha absolutely! - they provide extra cushioning as well!

This was never an advice column
.. and the intial post was with tongue-firmly-in-cheek, .. and managed to get a few people off their sofas to comment

Safety must always be a prime concern, and it certainly comes down to a combination of personal fitness,
board and kite selection, ability, comfort level and desired kiting experience

in no way would I condone or even suggest people should go out in conditions that will put themselves in danger

... but I'd have to say kite range is a huge consideration here in Auckland, and for many of us on a budget constrained by kids,
wives and/or girlfriends and bank managers, and limited time slots where kiting is an option, the decision to go out or not is usually
an affirmative by the time we have made the effort to get to the beach

I have kited many locations where the wind range is reliably consistent : Noumea, Lifou, Byron Bay, the Algarve, Kailua, Tarifa
.. but also many such as England's south coast, Point Chev, Muriwai, Croatia (in the onset of the Bura wind), Meola on Sunday
where conditions can be predictably unpredictable..

... its nice to have the range (certainly a large range with modern bows, whatever the individual user perceives it to be)
in your back pocket should you need it (without stuffing infants as ballast down my wettie !)
... I wouldn't have liked(/survived?) it at Meola on my old AR1 Wipika 8 metre, that's for sure !

... be safe ... (no-one wants to see dead kiters on the beach - they smell worse than the seagulls !)

....here's a reminder of what carrying a 6m & 7m kite in 40kts looks like!!

be safe, know your limits

If i had a passion for been lofted id have my 10m out in that wind going for it - as it is 30knots is the max for me

On a side note, have u got your hands on the new hot bandit? 8)
or is it the old 1
coz i need 1

na, i got my hands on the new fuel though!!

Very nice.... but id throw it away as some guys ruined it by writing his name on it :twisted:

Actual air density can be easily calculated, but as a pilot and engineering analyst I find density altitude more useful, and keep track of it in my kiting logs. Check it out on:

wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_da.htm

Keeping it simple 8 knots on a cold wet winters day ~ 12 knots on a hot, dry sunny summers day, so equating wind speed alone makes little sense.

Air density can be easily calculated. But as a pilot and engineering analyst I find Density Altitude more useful as a concept, and record it on my HowIsIt kiting logs. Check it out here:

wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_da.htm

It explains clearly why light wind on a cold winter's day works better than strong wind on a hot, dry summer's day...

Ok,
so modern kites have a bigger useable wind range and you can hold them down a bit longer, but 40 knots on a 13m?! Someone is either taking the p**s or is gonna get themselves killed. I've only been kiting 5 and a half years but was sailing and windsurfing long before that so have a pretty good grasp on wind strengths.

Ok so I am an instructor so maybe I err on the side of caution but I think people are eventually going to get into trouble with these flatter kites. Yes they have more depower and won't automatically drag you down the beach like an old C kite, but they also in general have a lot more power, so if you combine the fact that they have more power and are holding it down in more wind then when you make a mistake or your safety gets wrapped round your bar when you wipe out then potentially you could be in a lot of trouble!

I never use a wind meter, for me they are a waste of time and I can tell much better by looking at the water, seeing how much sand is blowing along the beach, etc (although for beginners they could be a useful tool). Sure in denser wind (colder low pressure locations) you need less to get going easier and get overpowered more easily and in warm dry air the opposite applies.

I have windsurfed in 40-50 knots on a number of occasions and kiters do not go out when it's that windy, when I was in Ireland Jamie Herraiz, Sky Solbach, etc were there when it was this windy and went looking for other spots. If these guys were looking elsewhere then I think we should too!

I think the most important thing to remember is that this sport has and will continue to kill people that make bad decisions. If in doubt don't go out! If you want to go out when the wind is 25 knots + then you are going to need something small (unless you are as big as doofus!) And don't even think about putting up a kite n these conditions unless you have plenty of room down wind of you!

So maybe, I'm already preaching to some of the converted but at the end of the day if you start pushing your kite towards and beyond the end of it's range then at some point you will come into trouble, get a small kite, you will be suprised how much you do use it!

haha!

didn't go out last weekend, was even a bit windy and gusty for me!

it was blowing shells and stuff off the beach into my eyes

was hard to walk!

i possibly could've on my 10, but I would've been out there solo and it probably wouldn't have been fun

Sambro...most sensible speil, & one of the few I've been able to understand in this entire thread...
I'll make a point of packin a small kite next week I think!

See ya in Taranaki 8)