ok here's my current thought

Here's my thoughts thus far
i'd like to make the p center from carbon.
resin fill the void with urethane so its completly sealed on the axle. make areplacable teflon encaps with through bolt from one encap to the other.
i'd also like the endcap to pre-load the urethane for adjastability of truck tighteness!.....

thanks for the urethane link guster. that will help my process no end..

Many chandlers also stock the cheaper Norski products though you may have to ask them to stock you a specific hardness. While you are there you might as well pick up some cheaper acrylic pigment of your choice to tint your elastomers. :O)

Leaving a concetric lip on the endcaps and through bolting will work though not provide any preloading without spacers or packers. Else if the endcaps are free to slide around the whole assembley would too - provided you don't have a kingpin or something to keep it form doing that. The other problem with through bolt is that you have to prevent the assembly from rotating in the tube. You'd also have to offset the bolts so as not have the axle ride on them in breaking up the elastomer in the process.

My idea was to reintroduce a kingpin again which meant that other than keeping the elastomers in the endcap served no other purpose. On the D-Ex's the endcaps provide the same critical function of a kingpin and the angle of the slot in which the axle actuate provided the limits of it's steering and steering sensitivity. The boots they used kept rubbish out of the alloy casing and reduced the friction/wear in the slot.

Guster - your knowledge re all things techo scares me!

On a less techo subject...hows the big Pansh?

I used to be quite involved in the ATB scene around the early days when Eug and Matt used to frequent the hills. Matt was convinced I met Butch before but I had a few concussions around that time too.

Messed around with a few ideas back then. Having a well equiped workshop at home helps with the fun too. While I've learned a lot more since then my free time decreased along with the increase in interest rate!

Pansh has been flown twice so far... once in 2knots and once in about 3knots. :? More due to lack of oppertunity coinciding with fatherhood and work responsibilities than anything else. Now that I have the lines tuned it's time will come and it will be needed once the new monster buggy is done. :twisted: Heard you got a Guerilla... will be quite exciting on that stand-up paddle board?

yes i would locate the through bolts to the body in some manner to stop twisting maybe 3 small stainles tubes laminated to the outside of the body for the through bolts to go through.

i've thought about a king pin but that adds another we point of wear. i'm trying to reduce as many working parts as possible. All i need to do is seal the slotted end cap and i have no bearings/pivots that will wear.... apart from the end cap that is easily replaced.

another though is to drill small holes in the body and mask them so when i fill the void with urethane, the urethane will locate itself in the body. It just would be a pain to try and extract the urethane if needed to.

That'll work. Sounds like you need a new friend with a TIG welder. Jimmy22 has 2 already...

I'm thinking that the kingpin will wear less than normal. Especially with so much of the load taken up and dampened by the elastomers. Also toying with the idea of a floating kingpin so hard landings are buffered to some extent.

The urethane rubbers are not so hot in shear deformation so holes in the tube walls may not 'locate' it with the amount of deformation involved. You could go square though... I'm actually going rectangular since the rest of the elastomer is not doing much in the other axis anyway. Similar reason as to why Revo's went elliptical to save on materials.

check these puppies out

www.trampaboards.com/product_info.php?products_id=311


made in Germany so you know it got to be (OVER) engineered!!

and ONLY

£150.00 (€180.00) each plus p&p (nz$500??)

have you had look at nosno trucks? www.nosno.com/


had a go on one last week. simply design and very smooth to ride, no speed wobbles etc

just heavy due to a big s/steel plate they bolt to.

also if you can find them bio-hazzard's "daisycut" trucks like a revo,

but just 2 pieces of aloy channeling around a rubber block, axle through the middle and four bolt straight through the whole lot. holding it altogether and to the board.

sounds rough but out of easten-block country and must pre-date revo by 5 years or so

Yes I've seen both the sprung torsion/cam and the nosno elastomer design. Actually ridden the latter which wasn't bad except that in attempting to save weight they reduced the deck to something so flexible that it bottomed out on every bump. Told they improved that with some carbon later on. I'd get rid of the angle plate and put the elastomers through the deck. I have an alternative to the nosno using something I learned from Jimmy22's leading link front that will need to be tested too.

The sprung cam has been used in other configurations too and I have not seen one I liked. Simplest was the springs in tension on the three-wheelers those Ausies were so fond of while Anarkite's probbaly the tidyest of the lot. However the Revo's still has them beat for performance and simplicity. Springs are nasty things to source or design compared to an elastomer.

Guster where did you find someone with a No Sno?

Those Anarkite trucks do look tidy but i dont like the mount section. New production boards dont normally have wide kicks like that needs so would end up looking funny... But then P Center revos dont have standard holes either but the also dont need kicks.

I am very interested to see what you guys can come up with. Im sure the entire moutnain board guys in NZ would also be interested to see what you can come up with. They are all looking for stability and strength.

After this next step is hubs and bearings.....

yeah that what i was think too, whats up with that massive steel plate!

love to have a go if you get it to work.

because nosno trucks are so stiff the deck needed to be flexible on their design as he helps the board turn, but i have heard they are changing the flex, but all sux if your to heavy for it.



yep look nice, Germans seem to love over engineering!! simple is always best why make it more complicated than it needs to be. just puts the price up.
$800!! a set, against $330 for revos

noted too the revos are still lighter as well

Some guys at Taupo had them and brought them down to Gravity hill a few times. Ausies had their crazy three wheelers that did great for racing but sucked at freestyle. There were even one or two of the crazier 2 wheel Dirtsurfers which I refuse to get on.

Nosno's were peculiar. I could never get one up to speed for all the bottom dragging. Because of the cutdown deck I also caught my heel on a tussock or two in a turn for a great spill. Kiting was also interesting as you came down from a jump you'd sink the deck in the sand and come to a quick stop.

Hubs are just one temptation away from putting a whole lot of money into a CNC machining centre. Something big enough to do buggy wheels too. I can currently fit that circumference on my lathe but the spoked centres are a whole lot more work than I would like on a manual mill. Bearings should just be factory parts from a local supplier - albeit stainless.

think getting wheel balancing is a big thing too! my whole board shakes more than i like, when i spin a wheel by hand. and thats with T1 on rockstar pro's

yes when i couldn't sleep last night i was considering the no sno design. quite simple really. I'd go the otherway round and run the elastomers between the deck and underneath the truck. its essentially like a skate truck but you kill the king pin in favour of a second elastoner set up. ....
i could possibly make them easier than the revo design.
carbon wrap and axle with about 60mm of flat either side drill 2 big holes and slam some massive elastomers either side.

tho revo type truck still winning my internal race. i might buy some urethane and just mangle a truck together from 316 tube and tube mounting brackets to see if it will work well. if it does then phase 2 will be carbon revo p center style.

50psi if you know where i can buy revo's for $330 let me know and i'll buy some....... it will save me heaps of time trying to make my own.

got that 330 off web site, still need to add shipping cost from uk.

www.kite-deck.com/index.html


just mailed them to see if i can get some parts for my trucks, will let you know what they say about shipping.

Mmmm might be a dead end

mail came back

The Nosno elastomers ar just like the ones on the Carkeek leading link buggy forks... just smaller.

After sales support on Revo's for parts only. Not enough to assemble and sell complete sets. <hint>Their manuals are pretty though</hint> Can think of a couple of ways to fabricate something similar from stainless stock. Looking forward to getting a new plasma torch for my plasma cutter for just this very reason. Should arrive today I hope - there's a lot of work for it.

Will have to sort Plummet out with a quadrolution style cruiser with granny tyres for 90mile too! Big wheels, long and stable low CoG. He might just keep up...

what do you mean might keep up?

yourl be pushing hard to keep up with me! (unless its an up wind run then i'm stuffed.)

on a downwinder tho its all on. With the granny tyres and trucks properly tuned i'll be sitting on 50-60 pretty easy. 70kph with perfect conditions is not out of the question!

i second that "a quadrolution style cruiser" well maybe not the "cruiser" part,
but would perfect for a long run down the beach. OR nosno style trucks bolted straight (on top) to a 2m deck/plank of wood!! :twisted:

For 88km's in the same direction. Heck.. I'm not even looking forward to it in the buggy!

88km would only take 2-3 hours without stops. i did 75km the day i nuked muriwai to the moose and got halfway back before the tide got me.

you could attack it 2 ways. hardout for a how fast can i zing the beach. good for the record books and regailing your mates but abit hard on the body. or mix it up with some breaks and maybe jumping around getting air riding toe side.....

re the quad or a massive board.... nah now that would be boring. also sliding so fun particulary at 50+kph not sure yourd be sliding a qaud style board too easily.

i'm starting to procure the parts for the stainless tube revo. I've got my design sorted in my head and should have a working proto in a month or so.

i will make them so i can mount them on my current board with 35 deg kicks. ill be able to drill several mounting points from underneth the deck for standard ride height and wheel base to pointing out the top of the kicks for super low long wb high speed stuff.

if they work as well as i hope then phase 2 will be full carbon board maybe even with intergrated p center style revo..... oooooh!

--------

Nah its a Venom 13m. Took it out to Moosevillle yesterdaywith Wayne and Paul N in 12-14knots. Niiiice.
Ive gotta say im not entirely sure how Kiteboarding a 11'4 Paddleboard will work..but it will happen!

Thatsmaboy! The Venom is a much better kite... you can always practise on a cheap wooden skimboard first. You don't need much power either. We we once got bored waiting for wind that wouldn't fly a 4m C-quad and actually got upwind on a windsurf board. Just watch you don't ding her!

ooh yeah parts are being procured.

i got some urethane epoxy stuff coming and some 2205 5/8 for the axle. random left over bits of 2" 316 dairy tube will be used for the elastomer housing and taped 1/4 tube welded to the dairy tube for end cap bolts.

i'll carbon wrap a P center type mounting bracket and we'll be all go.

ohh need to saunter down the road and get some acetal for the endcap....

im very keen to see gusters round mckay replica mounts, we are getting closer to a trial date for the carbon leading link for the XX style buggy and big foot buggies. I like your ideas plummet they are starting to look very real to me , it wont be long now..

i just need to get my 4x4 back on the road for the second time in 2 weeks and ill be ready (dont worry nothing a mechanic cant fix)

hopefully the 4x4 will be ready for the PL moose on waitangi weekend , are you interested in invading auckland 50 psi and plummet ?

oooh carbon leading link. now that would be the fruit. i recon 10mm solid carbon for the pivot point....

Nah i'm out for the moose on the tangi. just had to sell my left testicle to buy a new camera and tv for the missis. ouch.

maybe less revs more anit-freeze and a radiator fan that works and the 4wd will be singing.

i'm sticking to round so i can change the angle of the dangle. I'm making them so they will be able to be bolted underneath 35deg deck. at the end of the kicks, on the top and also for phase 2 for the deck without kicks.

this way i'll be able to transform my one deck from monster wheels long wb 90mile beach monster to small wheels shorter wb freestyle machine all with just changing tyres and re-positioning the trucks.

fair point re the holes for locating, i'll change that to drilling and tapping the tube and screwing in cap screws for location. Note the end caps will still be holding the sebang together.

radiator was 80% blocked, problem solved.

15 knots sw both days this weekend , im getting itchy but im also thinking about the following weekend....

got all my bits to make the trucks.... now i just need to find some time lurking around. anybody got any spare in a bucket somewhere?

i was once late to grannies funeral.. i got a nice watch from o/seas, it looked sweet but it broke down about 1 hour before the time i needed to be there, i realised after a few glances about 15 mins apart and checked my mobile in a bit of shock. after the funeral waiting for me to arrive before it began , i got home still a bit pissed off , took the sledge hammer out and smashed the crap out of that watch, you can have the pieces . ok back to the topic

Ive got half a bucket of time here somewhere.... but i think ive missed-placed it so thats no use either.

Take your time make em right make em nice.

Didn't you just buy missus Plummet a new vacuum cleaner?

Yeah make the older style so you can fit it on the board you have. Not only won't you have to wait to build another board but you can compare rides with the old trucks.

Talking about time. What a crazy mad couple of weeks!

Last Saturday I refused to enter my workshop again before reorganising and cleaning it up a bit. Got that mostly done before the dayjob got in the way with out of hours support. Sure I have 3 more days holiday to take to make up for it but another weekend has passed, missed out on another Moose and just realised it's been a month since my last kitesurf.

Work was pure disaster last week and this weekend past I only got about an hour in the shed between chores. Also doing the aging celebration for the missus this weekend so unless I clone myself or find a selfless subcontractor it will just have to wait again.

nah i'll make the p centers and fit them to my current deck!

was gona use 2" stainless tube but spike says thats too big so i'm back to the drawing board looking for 40mm tube i can use. i've decided to only use the tybe as a ,mould and ditch it after layup.

also considering drilling and taping a thread in the axle so i can mount the wheels via a bolt aka buggy style. then if i get a different width rim i'll just be able to buy a longer bolt.

i have enough material to make 2 sets of trucks so i may make a wider, high speed monster board truck. and a standard style for jumping etc.

my thoughts

monster trucks extra 100mm width and 45 to 50mm housing to counteract the extra leverage ratio. drilled and taped axle for different rims

standard truck standard revo style dimensions 40mm id 40mm W

dont use the bolts idea mate, it will be weaker by a fair bit. the bolt will have a shear load on 10mm thickness bolts, and hot spots created by the thread. ....Unless you use hi tens Steel ones then it should be ok, but of course you need plated ones and they look a bit crap with in 6 months.
i guess its easier to make though.

yes i had thought of the stress on the bolts. wonder if i can get 2507 bolts?

hehe when i asked for 2205 washers the washer sales man had no idea what 2205 was!

ps its 12mm shaft size.

i think i'll do both ways. drilled and tapped axle defo gives me a better adjustability for when i search for the ultimate granny tyre rim.

I wouldn't use bolts for axles either. I don't even use bolts for wheel axles on any of my buggies. What makes the initial design great is that axles are easily interchangeable. It's also just as easy to make a spare set of longer axles and swap them as needed.

On a side note. While I had a few minutes spare last night I drafted a stainles fabricated Quadrolution truck design as well as a few different options for a stainless fabricated p-centre. Despite being long weekend I have to get some more paid for fabrication out the way for a buggy in Christchurch. I think I will need to stop taking on work and focus on my own projects for a while again. Finaly got some plastic cups so I'd like to cast some elastomers this weekend... something I can do at night while baby sleeps.

guster i'm gelious of your machining capability. i have to attempt to manufacture my items with angle grinder, dremel, drop saw, jig saw and finishing sander oh i do have small drill press!!!!
aaaaH i hunker for a machining center.

i was looking at brand spanking new cnc lathe and mill at a customers today! ahhhh not even bolted down yet. i would like that in my garage!!!!

do you de-gas and heat cure your elastomers?

12mm bolt would have a 10mm diameter at the bottom of the threads

i'll take both your and gusters advice and go for the machined option. Just means i have to pay someone to machine it as i don't have the tooling.

I'd love a CNC VMC for a start... I'd never leave home!

2 ways to degas: Pressure or vacuum. Theory around vacuum is lowering the ambient pressure expands bubbles giving them more volume to float/rise and pop. Pressure on the other hand compresses them to near nothing but requires the mold to be cured under pressure. I prefer the latter as vacuum tend to simply cause surface voids.

Simple ways to avoid a most of the problems is to mix a little and paint your mold before casting the whole thing. You can add a little more colour and get a solid finish and leave the rest uncoloured. Secondly mix small quantities carefully as not to stir in air.

To make a simple pressure pot you just need an old steam cooker if you can find one cheap. I lost mine and still looking for a replacement.

i'll just stir and pour gently as i'll be using my body as the mould its a pain in the arrse to try and pressurise and put under vacuum.

ohhh. getting closer to laying up the body. been building a mould this week.....

still wrestling with the final layup for the body. should i have foam core in the body to have greater stiffness or run solid carbon for greater robustness? i'm favouring a solide contruction. heavier but more bullet proof.

dont go foam core, it will stuff out eventually

-----

upload pics dman/Plummet !!!

My 'non awareness of SS washer grade' mind needs graphical images to put 2 and 2 together...

yeah i think solid is the way!.

no pics yet luap. when get to layup stage yourl see some pic's

but if you want to know about stainless grades..... thats another story.

i've chosen 2205 for the axle. Why because i'm too cheap for titanium!.
2205 is commonly known as duplex and is a cross between austinetic and ferritic grades. it tensile strength is alot higher and also has better corrosion resistance that your 316 stainless!.... t

Doubt a few bubbles will do you any harm here. You sure won't see any of them in the finish of your application. As long as there not that much that it compromises the elasticity you should be flowing florals in the breeze... (re. 90mile ged'up)

You could use solid PVC to make up the bulk of your part too. Epoxy glues to it as long as it's clean.

S32205 is just S31802 with a ductilitty and tensile strength closer to that of normal steel and a slightly higher price.

May have scored 4 of those wheels like they use on golf trundlers, mountainbuggy strollers and Quadrolution boards. Just waiting to see if the bearings are large enough for the intended purpose and we may have a cruiser shortly. No grannies here mate!

pvc awe! hmm. thats a thought...... if i could find some 2" pvc pipe i could cut that into thirds and it would have a nice radius too....

i hope its 16mm diameter 2205 or larger if its more than 350mm wide.

2205 is the shizzle as guster said same tensile as mild steel, non of the down side . We have some leading link suspensions made from 2205 for the littles foots and off roaders. Bloody nice stuff.

just under 1000mpa if i remember correctly ?!

yep 16mm rod. i have 2 axles made of standard length same as the alum sample you sent down and 2 80mm longer. we will see.... really tho i'm more worried about my carbon body.... will that fail, , , , we will find out. hopefully not at 70kph.

nah, not with rubber encased axles, no shock loading. Still i guss you will have a good few mm of thickness ? Alloy is so much weaker you cant go wrong unless you bias it badly, but that is where you excel so dont sweat it too much