Not sure how many people new this was coming but Waikuku weekend when i managed to bust my PL Comp buggy we decided it needed a new back axel.

After deciding that simply replacing it wasnt an option KiteDaddy (My Father) went about thinking of ways to make a new stronger axel custom made for jumping. The result was a heap of money and time thrown in to design and make the completly new rear end capable of taking both 12mm and 20mm wheel bolts if the wheels get upgraded.

And the finished result is this...

so where can i place an order for one of those axles

Looks pretty sweet KiteDaddy, nice piece of design...

Maybe you can give us a run down of the pro's and con's of this design..?

I know some of the details... Zenon gave me a rundown... I'll just give a quick overview on his behalf.

1- The idea is to keep it as cheap as possible. The axle is plain steel tube (costing approx $5). The axle slides into two pieces at the end of the wheel. In this way, the axle itself (just a bit of pipe) can be quickly replaced when it does inevitably get bent. The side frame attachments are also made to clamp on. No welds at all involved in replacing. I call it the "bolt up and ride" system.

2- The wheel inserts will be machined to accomodate the two sizes... not so sure on this, but my understanding is you simply turn the insert around to get 12 or 20mm bolt sizes. ie one end is machined with 12mm thread, the other with 20mm.

3- Bolts are made from high tensile strength steel. The thread doesn't start until the bolt is inside the axle. This means 12mm of solid bolt, not 9mm (as 1.5mm of each side is just the thread on the bolt). Confusing eh???

Concept is really good. The axle is cheap (INCREDIBLY CHEAP) to replace, and can be done on site.

Also, the axle is no more rigid than normal, meaning it still absorbs the frequent shockwaves, as universally induced by buggy jumping. If it were over-engineered, shock taken by the axle would be transferred through the (already over-burdened) buggy jumper's back.

All in all, a bloody logical and concise solution!

Also, the only real components needed are the clamps and the wheel inserts. Pipe is readily available.

Don't worry, I've already got 4 clamps and 4 inserts on order Sym, should be here within a few weeks.

Then my Soon to be PLK pimped up buggy will be fully complete. 8) I'll have a custom built seat, new sideframes, a recycled front end and now a fully good axle with 1.4m and 95 cms available... plus my pimped tyres.....

OHHH MAN　IT'S GONNA BE CRUISE HEAVEN

Spig
Someone whom I won't mention had a morgage on the putter last night

Blizzard has the general idea.

My concept was to make the axle tube a throw away item and have all the fittings interchangeable to a new axel tube. The other reason for the bolt on approach was to lessen the stress on the tube caused by welding the side rail mounting tubes, as is the case in all the production buggies.

The main axel tube has 2mm wall thinkness and is 38mm dia. This gives a lot more strenght to the axel compaired to the 1.2mm and 32mm stainless tube of Zenons PL. (I note that PL have 38mm for their axels now)

To help with rusting problems of the steel the axel tube has been parkerized (a process used by gun smiths to stop rifles from rusting. It is more rust resistant than "Blueing")

There is acetal inserts between the stainless wheel hubs inside the axel tube to prevent any chance of sizeing together and means we could use smaller stainless bar to lessen both weight and costs. Also because the tube is not perfectly round it means they can be pushed in and then machined to suit the hub, giving a nice fit with no movement.

As Blizzard mentioned. The wheel bolts are now cap screws with a rateing of 12.8 tensile. By inserting the plain shank of these into the axel hub it means to bend it now it needs to bend 12mm instead of the core thread dia of 9.85mm as is the case with the original PL system.

Costs: To date are at about $150.00 plus labour welding and machine time.

Will it work? Who knows, but given that track record of the original, I think it will be better. If it bends there is also the added advantage of being able to turn the axel around in the side rail clamps and bend it back again!! If not the next step is to use a higher tensile for the main tube as I'm not in favour of tower braces as they make the axel to rigid and as Jay found out with the other one can hit you in the back when landing.

Test run AFTER EXAMS zenon.

Thanks for the info KD & Blizz, I'll look forward to seeing it in action soon

I broke my elbow buggy jumping today

Oh well, flying a 13mtr in the 20 knot NW was pretty fun. Considering Sym was on the (somewhat underpowered) 1.5 junkie...

Finally getting decent air with the ol' G2

how broken? it was only a small tap on the side rail you pussy

Underpowered because he should have had the 5m Junkie up. Unfortunatly i couldnt make teh trip but i have seen a photo and the jump looked good now had i been there me and my 4.9 blade would have given you a run for your money. but first i need a new set of foot straps.

Broken or hurt?

lol when i put the 5m up all hell broke loose and in came the 20+ winds now when a kite lifts when parked at 90 it is somewhat over powered...

It's broken.. BROKENDAMMIT!!! But seriously, my ass is broken too, I came down from quite a height after that lofting...

Just rewatched all my buggy jumping videos, got some new ideas for moves.

I've also come to the conclusion that there is one key law that governs kiters all around the world... well two actually.

1st and formost, BALLS. Not being brave in the face of a mob type balls, but silliness balls. That is having the mental capacity (or incapacity, as it were) to throw all caution into the wind and do something previously unseen.

To me, Rob Hills and Chasta take the cake. These two fellows have attained the greatest element of technical refinement in their respective fields, whilst going for it and pulling off monumental feats.

However, not only do they remain in a perpetual state of invincibility whilst kiting, they also pull off each move flawlessly. So, naturally the second law is consistency. Afterall, if Rob constantly bailed after a reverse aerial 540, it would not become worth watching.

I think the formula lies in the balance between logic and recklessness. One has to maintain an element of sophistication when tackling freestyle moves, whilst having that cruicial disregard for gravity.

So there you have it boys, go invest in a pair of brass nuts, or take up badminton. The choice is yours.

No, Joseph, you wouldn't. It was a NW. Blades don't like NW winds, they luff.

However, a Pl arc on the other hand... they just EAT gusts 8)

Plus I think you would've had a hard time holding the 4.9 down. Mason never touched the buggy on the overpowered 5m.

Doesnt mean i wouldnt have tried. Theres a small bit of that reaklessness coming throught there.

And i saw pics of your big jumps that mason took and it looks good. Not sure what direction you were travelling but it looked as though you were travelling sideways.

Anyway last exam this afternoon so its all on from there except work to pay for the new kit.

Zee

Blade 4.9
+ Nor west gusty wind
= one way ticket on the hurt train ........

10 foot in the air and getting a big luff and falling like a rock ....owwwww


speaking for experience from the gusty nor west down here
if i had one of those PL kites for those days things would be better .......

Whats that you say .... Norwester talking aout having a PL kite ......

Hey Norwester.........Did you bang your head when you hit the ground?

Wash your mouth out with swearing like that

KD

without competing brands we wouldnt have the kite quality we have today...

what norwester is saying is certainly true but KD you have a valid point as well... did you get a checkup after your blade dropped you on your head norwester? (it seems to us like you havint...)

now if only i could be bothered finishing my 3m junkie

o and will while ure down at the pl factory ill need you too find a seat i can buy seen as mines dieing and joes spare needs a fix

anyway i need sleep if im going to do anything kite related tomoro

NO MORE SCHOOL TILL NEXT YEAR:D:D:D

i think we can all agree its time to practice no matter what we are using even if it happens to be a blunt stick, merkin or a bee hive... however a combination of the 3 is purely unacceptible

syMptom

ps. (i feel the need to name my post cos everyone else is because its just sooo hard to look a little more to the left and read <===========)

Guess who's gonna come back to chch with an oldschool proto buggy 8) ?
This is a little machine apparently. Proto back axle which is similar to Zenon's in some respects (ability to rotate it). Built for freestyle.

20mm wheel bolts
Custom (being made tonight) seat
new design splashguard
plus, proper footpegs

Oh and Zenon, that old tyre the I broke... do you still have the tube and tread? I'll probably need them to complete the buggy.

Also, I've got what looks like a 13-14 proto V2 or vortex. Not sure which. And a 6-7m high aspect proto buggy arc. Not sure how the buggy arc will go, but hopefully that'll be my highwind kite sorted.... Can't wait to test em on Sunday.

Now as for shopping lists. SO FAR:
2m red chikara
I repaired that old seat of Zenons, so the seat is sussed sym.

Also, do you want new footpegs or a back axle from the workshop Sym? I can get a mk 2 axle (which is a really nice bit of kit) plus some new wheels with the 20 mm bolts.

Anything to be added?

Oh, and good to finally see the idea of PL kites getting through to some people. Come along to the beach sometime Norwester and I'll invite you into the great world of stabilty and control.

Symptom........before you go to the expense of getting new wheels with bigger bearings I sugest you try changing to 12.8 tensile cap screws. The cost will be about $3.50 each. If you are still bending or breaking these then look at the bigger bearings and axel mods that will be needed to fit them to. So far your axel has not been too bad............Unless Blizzard has bent it from all his jumping practise he has been doing lately :wink:

KD.

Yeah i want my old seat back Im sure syMptom wanted a XR seat one thats actually comfy unlike the crap things hes using at the moment.

Add to your list: Velchro (Wide stuff)
Webbing (also Wide Stuff)
Webbing (thin stuff if you dont have any)

I need to make footsrtaps and a seatbelt for my flexifoil buggy.

Thats all i have to add but i might think of something else later if so ill let you know.

OOO and can you please get me a price on wheels with 20mm bearings and hubs (ie no tubes or tread)

foot pegs are a must

zenons right i ment a xr seat as i knew he wanted his one back

KD your right my axel is still good but only because theres no current alturnative letting me treat it otherwise.

im certainly looking at 20mm bolts but atm im not sure whats happening with things so ill just wait on it


ooooooooo i need a 13m kite **hint hint**

That 13 is mine...

I'll try get all the bits, but maybe no wheels this week. I'm having to use bigfoots this next week as they dont have any of the slim ones in stock...

So, one XR seat, footstpegs for mason?
and footpegs for zenon?

I have all the webbing and velcro you could possibly need.

Tomorrow I wanna get a clamcleat for my new bar. Zenon you need QRS from there?

yep thats right:

seat
footpegs
red material

man o man. It's 6 45 and I'm awake.

Sym, you sure you don't just wanna buy a whole new back setup? Get some new tensile cap screws for now, and use with that axle, and keep it as a spare???

The mk 2 axles will take some bending. Believe me, the 20mm bolts look freakin huge 8)

Blizz pick me up a Set of footpegs only if they are under $20 otherwise dont worry.
Get me a Quick release as well but it must be reasonably priced i dont want to pay too much ie like $30 i need it for my seat belt.
and if possible one of those little strap holders. The ones on the front of the XR seat. Not clips but little thing the straps go through to hold two straps tight. Hope you know what i mean.
As well as the webbing that is sweet man...i think...Can i have fries with that? :roll:

Honestly i think mason you should wait and think about an axel like dad has built. It will be better value for money i do believe. And 20mm bolts will be good but they will still bend under heaps of stress. The 12mm bolts i have will fully snap off meaning you will still be able to remove them from the wheel put a new one in and go. Otherwise if it bends and can get stuck between the bearings and the spacer thats inbetween leaving it difficult to continue riding unless you have a second wheel of which no of us do at the moment. I have new tread and tube but william is stealing it back.

Ok so im finished i think. OOO william have lynn's thought about belly pans for the peter lynn buggys you could bring some of them if they have them... :wink:

And what about some KITES TO DEMO Please bring us a small venom 2 or something if possible we will all pitch in for courier to send it back........PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE....anything to demo im not fussy....

Ok, I can't get Qrs, we need to mission it over to the marine place. I need to go there either today or tomorrow to get my new bar system up and running.

I'll grab a clip.

I've got a proto V2 or vortex, not sure, but I know it's a latest generation. This one has everything... adjustable straps in the centre and tips, new trailing edge triangles etc... Fly that and you'll see what all the fuss is about.

Can't think of what you'd need a belly pan for? Just to stop sticks coming through the seat etc?? Seems relatively unneccessary at this point to me dude...

How's the flexifool buggy man?

OK that about covers it I hope, can't see any spelling errors in the post at all..... wait I'll just check it quickly..... nope..... still no mistakes.... :wink:

Flexifool buggy is sitting unused...AWWW ground is too wet for park and i cant be bothered getting outside at the moment. When are you back in chch Blizz?

Blizzard
See what you can find in the way of promo stickers if you are still down there.

Given your likeing for rough terain riding I would think a belly pan is a must have for your bug-----Unless you are comming back with a carbon fibre kevlar rienforced seat for it!

KD

Hey guys,

Keen for a session, back at home. Got the new bigfoot buggy all ready to rock. Let's go!!!

KD: I'll see what can be done about the stickers. Down again in 2 weeks.