Well the new Wind and Kite is out. Seems Shaan has got his "500 signed appologies" as we get at least two bits of writing from him At least there's something in there for kite boarder's I guess. I've been told that they won't pay anything for photo's (*see blew) as they get so many for free. The only NZ photo's I can find in the are the Cindy and Mark Shinn article (the one of Mark at Sumner is printed backwards with the kite fixed up, look at the backwards sh of naish on his board) which I've already read in 5 differnt mags in three differnt languages (at least they had an original English one not an English->German->English one that I've read elsewhere). So it seems that there will be little actual NZ content again this year, just more advertiser provided "editorial". Yay.

Chris

* I wrote a Tarinaki article earlier this year that was publish in Wind and Kite. It cost me, a not small amount, to take and develop some reasonable slides for them to publish, as well as the time and effort to write the story, plus a Chch spot guide. For this effort I didn't even get sent a copy of the magazine, I had to get one from someone else. My slides (which in theory I could well have needed to sell to someone else), eventually made it back to me after 6 months. I wonder if I'll contirbute anything else....

Is the new mag out yet??? Sweet.

:cry: Yes i must admit the new mag didnt really do it for me. I have also already read the Cindy and Mark Shinn artical plus the speedsailing with Robby on the net. I found that there is sweet fark all local content.The only thing worhty is Shaans speil on kiteloops.(great word usage,possibly an x scrabble champ) Although the sequence shot is a bit hard to follow. I would like to see more pics from around N.Z more road trips,more chicks in bikinis ( Topless is fine ) letters to the ed. Raves and rants.Waveriding, geezas getting big air.Also 100% pure kiteboarding!! Pole boarding doesnt really amp me up before a sesh.... Anyway time will tell.. Lets hope Derek can turn it into a top mag.

100% NZ kiteboarding :twisted:

Any shots of crew goin hard at shakers?

I agree with Chris. Had a lot of trouble getting slides returned from Steve's mags, even with climbing shots in Adventure mag over the last ten years. Generally takes a series of 4 to 6 email requests over a period of 4 - 6 months to get slides returned. Woopdy shit, who cares, I was always pretty stoked to get published. These days just send in a CD of pics eh guys... and if they won't pay but you still wanna be famous and send them anyway, then at least they could have the common curtesy of including photo credits.
It makes me think what exactly is a magazine for? All the juicy gossip and slander such as that which makes the Aussie rag a rollicking good read is probably best kept here in slightly less than public cyberland. The mag is for giving a textual public face to the sport, which might be perused by a granny or a little grom. So the mag should perhaps, in this undeniably more conservative nation, be a bit more clean cut. But mainly it should have hard hitting mindblowing images which grab attention and make some people actually wanna do it so as to justify all the advertising wedge sunk in to every issue. And at the same time maybe it should promote safety with helmets and leashes in at least some of the shots. Until now the advert/text to NZ pic ratio has been bullshite, but the only way to change that is to put the vidcam down for once and share stills cam duties with your mates, put fingers to keys a little, then send it in. I trust in three weeks time the mags P.O. box will be overflowing with material from the likes of old Kenny and co... maybe some pics of the Aucks crew ripping up Stent road? Go on get down there, youse guys are 5 hours and an expensive ditch crossing closer than us so no lameass excusses.
A little shocked and surprised to see the illustrious Mr Miller breaking his fast from the world of print media... too long I suffered his blacklisting "for fraternising with the darkside". I look forward to being informed by his comprehensive articles covering the finer aspects of the game in future volumes.

hey kane!

i certainly haven't been fasting from print media - i'm donkey deep in it all day long.

despite my colourful history with kiteboarding publications, i've even contributed to every issue of w&k mag by designing ads for all and sundry - even kiteforum.co.nz.

since derek is now involved with w&k, and he's at least an enthusiastic kiteboarder, as well as a reasonable human being - i'm prepared to give him at least a chance.

i myself still haven't seen the mag (despite being an advertiser / contributor) so can't comment on anything else.

point taken on taranaki. there are simply not enough days in the week to truck on down despite our constant blathering about it. i can't believe i had so much more time and money? when i was an unemployed windsufferer.

:shock: I tried to send a couple of Pics into the mag a while back of Peter Boot boosting at Orewa. Nothing amazing but thought would be good to get a bit of local action in the mag.The reply i got was to stick to making kites as my photos were shite!! or words to that effect.Hence i havnt bothered to send in any more pics...

Yeah, I've had page long emails from the mag explaining in great detail why my pictures are technically incorrect. And of course experienced and well equiped photographers such as Steve Dickenson can rightfully make such comments. However, there seem to be few people in NZ taking reasonable photos at all, and I notice many, more seriously "incorrect" photos used in international magazines, even for adverts.
Actually all the things that my mates and I think make a good photo, factors which regularly feature in international pics, are those which were slammed. Things like... shallow depth of field, sun in the photo, slight motion blur. I'd rather see a slightly back lit, a little soft focused photo of Shaan higher than his kite at Orewa, than some non-local international name.

yes sir - some of the best photos taken of me have been soft focus.

hey - here's one for you alert readers: for the last two lunchtimes in a row, i've run into john banks, mayor of auckland - once sharing a table at a cafe, and today i had to step around him as he had his photo taken in his regalia on queen st. i'm sure by now he thinks i'm stalking him.

the point is - has anyone else noticed the uncanny similarities between his worship and our very own decay?

i wonder if by chance they are related?

i saw a copy of the new issue today,same old shit,very sad.

Well I thought the mag was not to bad.

I think the boys, Steve and Derrick have done a good job.
I think it's a bit rough saying it's shit, come on.

If they did not put something out no one would.

I'm sure the next issue will will be better for those who did not like it.

The cover shot is great, the print quality is great, the carbon art advert was fantastic. Asides from that the content was shite.... pretty hard to dispute that cause there really wasn't any content

It seems a real pity that most of the people who are writing on this forum have very little positive to say about anything - reading your comments reminds me of the reasons I chose not to play netball as a youngster and chose to take up the more adventurous sports, because I hated listening to the bitching - a pity that this seems to have crept into the windsurfing industry!

hardly suprising that theres nothing positive about the windsurf industry here... nobody gives at rats ass about windsufferrs this is a kiteboard site. actually thats the worst thing about the mag asides from the general lack of content is that half of it is windsurfing which is of zero interest... actually negative interest to me.

thanks to the "guest" who pointed out the fact that this is a kite forum, however, the magazine is aimed at both windsurfing and kite boarding - glad to hear that its the kite boarding industry that is made up of such a bunch of wingers and not the windsurfers - i did make the right choice after all

settle settle children...come together in a spirit of aloha and enjoy the great outdoors in harmony.

everybody just take two big breaths - i have deleted a couple of posts because they were just so sad.

has the whole world gone stark raving bonkers?

See Deb here's the problem. We used to have an excellent local mag called Kitesurf Quarterly, run by our current host Shaan. Then Wind & Kite came onto the scene and,while I don't know all the ins and outs, I guess there weren't enough advertisers to go around so we ended up with that. Kitesurf Quarterly had a lot of local content and photo's and Shaan gave it some real personality. The new mag manages to not apeal all that much to kiteboarders or, presumably windboarders, by having a) little content and b) not even much of that is local content. If you go back to the post that started the thread you'll notice that there are some of us who would like to contribute and even have done in the past. However the treatment I recieved doesn't warrent me doing anymore. I mean really would you cost yourself a couple of hundred dollars to not get a copy of the magazine you sent two articles and a bag full of slides to?

Chris

Bring back Kitesurf Quarterly!!!

..except maybe make it Kitesurf monthly.

Well why do you think it dissapered in the first place ?

Thanks for the explanation, but what I still dont understand is that if Shaans mag was so shit hot, why is it not up and running still? If the industry think that WInd and Kite mag sucks (as you keep tellling us) then why is it so well supported in both advertising and subscriptions? I look forward to being continuingly enlightened.

I'd be keen to know why KSQ bit the dust. It was a bloody beauty. Whats the story Shaan?
As for W&K subs. bwahahahaha. I was promised a few freebies for sending a ton of slides (several of which were used). Do you think any copies have turned up yet....? No..
Way to treat your contributors...

OK DEB THIS IS FOR YOU.
PACIFIC MEDIA ARE AT THE MOMENT THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO CAN KEEP A WINDSURFING/KITE MAG ALIVE.
THEY SIT DOWN AND ASK PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE IN IT AND DO IT FOR THE UP AND COMING ISSUE.
THEY WERE A COMPANY THAT SAW A BIG GAP IN THE MAGAZINE MARKET AND PEOPLE CRYING OUT TO FILL THE GAP AND THEY DID, NO MATTER WHAT THEY LOST THEY DID IT. THEY KNEW BUGGER ALL ABOUT EITHER SPORTS (they know heaps now tho) BUT GAVE IT THERE BEST SHOT, THATS HALF THE REASON YOU SEE THE MAG FOR FREE.
THEY HAVE DONE A DAM GOOD JOB SO FAR.

NOW FOR ALL YOU FUCKERS COMPLAINING. :shock:
GROW THE FUCK UP.
YOU COMPLAIN AND GIVE PEOPLE SHIT ON THIS FORUM, WHY ??????


I WOULD LIKE TO SEE YOU DO A BETTER JOB, THAN THE MAG AND CURRENT SHOPS TRYING TO HOLD THE WINDSRFING AND KITING TOGETHER.
I TELL YOU WHAT, IF I COULD COME ACROSS YOU CLOWNS THAT GET ON HERE GIVING PEOPLE SHIT I WOULD FUCKEN TEAR YOU APART.
BUT ONCE AGAIN YOU FEEL SAFE SITTING BEHIND YOUR KEYBOARDS DON'T YOU.

WELL LOOK OUT BECAUSE ONE DAY YOU WILL SLIP UP AT THE BEACH AND I WILL BE THERE WAITING FOR THAT MOMENT TO TEACH YOU FUCKERS SOME RESPECT.

YOURS DAYS ARE NUMBERED FUCKERS................. :twisted: :twisted:

Sorry about that Debs, there are nice people on this forum and some really good friendly kiters & windsurfers out there as well, that will offer you the world of help. Don't let a few clowns on there keyboards ruin it for you.
But some times it helps to uncage the monster inside to get the point through to those people who are wrecking the sport for all and don't even know it. (ABOVE my MONSTER)

So have a good one and I take it I will be gone as soon as Shann reads this. But hey I could always type it again if my message did not get across.

Happy Sailing

Does anyone know anyone who knows anyone who actually has a subscription to this magazine???

I don't enven know anyone that has paid for it????
(apart form the advertisers)

P.S. I brought the last three copies of Kitesurf quarterly

Thanks so much to the person who replied to my message - glad to hear the industry is made up of some good guys - you have renewed my faith that not everyone on this forum is an arse!!! Cheers

Hi Guys. This is all getting a little heated in here but there is one thing I would like to say about the latest issue.

Thumbs up to Graham Hill for his article about SAFETY.

This is an under-preached subject needing further comment - to the point I've even considered approaching SSS about starting up another subject area under general discussion totally devoted to it.
Www.kiteforum.com has one, however it would be good to learn more closer to home from others. I know when I took lessons, Lofting wasn't discussed!

Lets stay safe out there!...

well, the genie is out of the bottle now, the rats are scuttling across the kitchen floor and the doomed are gathering for their last terrible day of wrath and even shouting in UPPER CASE!

the people have spoken, the silver cord has been loosed and the dogs of war are on the prowl...

for too long i have held my tongue, but the time has finally come to spill the awful truth - to expose the fraudsters and send the guilty to their terrible day of judgement with much weeping and gnashing of teeth.

i've read with interest your opinions, heard the voices crying out from the wilderness - witnessed the doomed scurrying over the plains seeking refuge from the shadow of their own abominations.

and i have laughed. the wheels of justice are slow but grind they do. who can say that justice hasn't been done - not only done but seen. and now that i have seen it done, i know how done i've been.

what the hell am i on about?

it doesn't take a satellite technician to figure out who 'jack', 'deb' and 'windsurfer and kite user' are. for my money they are derek teensma (editor), debra tunnicliffe (designer) and steven dickinson (publisher) of the famous wind and kite magazine. three people who are understandably passionate about their handiwork, and defensive when criticised.

what is harder to understand is why they haven't exercised their rights of reply, fronted up and clearly rebutted their debaters, winning hearts and minds along the way as publishers are usually able to do. innocent deb is the exception, she uses her real name and seems genuinely keen to learn about the whys and wherefores of the 'industry' she's stumbled into.

no-one is bitching at you deb - or in fact the look of the mag, which keeps getting slicker. well done.

production values are unfortunately far from most people's minds when they get talking about their sport and the media that 'represent' them.

there have been other areas of improvement as well, in a magazine that desperately tries to represent two volatile and disparate cultures, without understanding either of them - when every other similar publishing house in the world is clear this is not such a smart idea.

good on you though steve for seeing the gap and having a crack! as i've always said, you deserve the windsurf / kiting industry who you're so keen to pander to - and they certainly deserve you.

newsflash: steve today withdrew his advertising on kiteforum.co.nz emailing: "In an 'open forum' people can say whatever they like about the magazine - that is not the issue, but I have been concerned about the insulting and offensive nature of some of the commentary directed at individuals and it is not something that we - as a publication want to be associated with."

presumably that's you guys - kiters - he doesn't want to be associated with. bugger.

one thing i have picked up from the communications of pacific media, both in this and other discussions, is their continual references to the industry (its wants and needs) and never a mention of the people - individual kiters who actually live the sport, who, one might be forgiven for thinking are the most important elements in the whole shooting match.

during my mag publishing career - the readers were the be all and end all, they were who i was doing it for - not for the advertisers (by and large a motley collection of ex-cons, thugs, pimps and racketeers - with a few rare exceptions).

when you reach the masses (who pay to read your mag because they know they are getting exclusive news, solid information, entertaining journalism about themselves, their community and the most passionate thing in their lives) - advertisers come knocking.

the same goes with this forum. this isn't for the so called 'industry' but is a service for kiters. humble kiters who have real jobs and callussed feet and like to whoop it up when its windy. the industry is big enough and ugly enough to look after itself.

when people get into kiting, they don't do it to support a bunch of flag-waving, in-fighting empire builders. (nor do people have any great interest in the fortunes of colonel sanders when they buy KFC). they get into kiting because of the rush involved in boosting on demand, and KFC because its the first joint they come to on the way home from the beach. they couldn't give a cotton-pick'n rat's ass about some bitter and twisted pleb's mortgage - who's trying to flog them kit at over thrice what it actually cost some monstrous corporation to stitch together in china.

most manufacturers and retailers (the guys that write the fat cheques to magazines) have absolutely no interest in the welfare of the human beings who participate in our sport. they are businessmen who are in many cases are personally entangled and trapped to some extent into their situation. everything they do is about making coin! when they talk about 'growing the sport' they're talking dollars and cents in their pocket - selling the sizzle to new blood. often they couldn't care less about, or even despise those who are actually fully committed to the sport because they've bought their gear elsewhere.

to kiters, the 'industry' is a necessary evil that taxes them on their good times. regardless, they are stoked to be into the best time on earth.

magazines are also a necessary evil - made less palatable when their only logical motivation is making a buck - why else would you deal with the hard yards? a genuine love for the sport perhaps - and the welfare of its participants?

in this age, web forums are also a necessary evil. this one is run by kiters for kiters. in every community, there are negative morons with small peckers who snipe and whine hiding behind anonymity - and it seems we have our fair share of those . get over it! as long as people are reasonably respectful and have something relevant, informative or entertaining to say, we'll be listening, even if we disagree with other people's opinions. if someone's twisted view of life offends you, explain why - and try the power of communication. if you're socially challenged in some way or just don't want to take advantage of the possibilities available in a live chat room - you know where you can go. www.disgruntledloner.com is a good start!

i could write a book about why i stopped publishing my mag titles, and probably will.

those that know the full story find recent events particularly amusing and will still be laughing (and kiting) long after the mediocre wind and kite episode fades from memory.

This is written by Steve Dickinson the publisher of Wind and Kite Magazine.
I got a phone call to read this small heartrending novel written by Shaan Miller.

Let me get one thing clear from the start - neither I, nor Derek, nor Debbie (our dear designer) has written anything in this section of this forum. Nor did we write any of the material that Shaan has chosen to delete.

Secondly yes, we are removing our advertising support, it has nothing to do with individuals bagging the magazine people can say whatever they want, some of the comments are even valid. Our latest stats show that 124 folks have clicked through from this site to our subscription site resulting in 21 subscriptions, 17 for Wind and Kite Magazine and 4 for Adventure Magazine so the advert it seems has worked well.

However we are not happy supporting a site that openly insults individuals.

As for the rest of the material written here by Shaan and the others, (plus what was here but has been deleted), as I have said, everyone is entitled to their opinion. The success of Wind and Kite can best be measured by sales, subscriptions and advertising support, all of which have increased dramatically with every single issue.

The bottom line is - magazines are self leveling, if they are not supported, read, they simply decrease and disappear. Wind and Kite has grown every issue since the first issue.

Shaan says;

during my mag publishing career - the readers were the be all and end all, they were who i was doing it for - not for the advertisers.
when you reach the masses (who pay to read your mag because they know they are getting exclusive news, solid information, entertaining journalism about themselves, their community and the most passionate thing in their lives) - advertisers come knocking.

It is interesting to note that neither the Windsurfing Magazine nor Kiteboarding Quarterly are no longer around

Shaan, seems as if the masses let you down.

Finally the good thing about any magazine is if you dont like it dont read it.

If you have something to say or contribute feel free to call me on
09 4282441 0212595327 or email me on This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

we're not hiding

Thanks for the comments Shaan - yes, Deb is my name but I am definitely not Deb Tunnecliff - or whoever - and I definitely am no designer - just someone who enjoys a whole heap of sports, but is seriously being put off kiting! I have to agree with Steve Dickinson - this forum should lay off the personal abuse - constructive criticism is great but some of you sound like you have a personal axe to grind - maybe you should do as Steve suggested and contact him directly.

We are commenting on OUR magazine? (wind boarders)
OUR FREE magazine?
OUR FREE magazine that supposedly lacks NZ input because we don't input?

Sorry if I often repeat myself, but there seems to be great difficulty for some to understand basic concepts - and I am commenting on those who flew off the handle at the mag or those whose magazine just did not - fly that is.
The next time any of you are tied to a chair with your eyelids taped open and the dark lord forcing you page after free page to read/look at the sport you love ..... just call for help .... I will consider your plight - NOT

For the rest of us: Maybe a litle input & pics and even positive critisism - I know I will try OR just enjoy the mag.

To the guys at Pacific media a big thank you!

De-Wet

i am in direct contact with steve. we will no doubt continue our correspondence if, as i suspect, he tries to wangle out of his advertising contract.

remember, the purpose of a forum is discussion and this particular one was started by someone with a seemingly valid observation about a magazine which impacts our sport. most kiters are always going to be passionate about this subject. big deal.

steve dickinson obviously doesn't cope well with feedback - his first reaction is to withdraw his support for an open forum that serves the kiting community, and by his own admission has worked to his advantage. no big deal.

he says: "The success of Wind and Kite can best be measured by sales, subscriptions and advertising support, all of which have increased dramatically with every single issue."

i say there are other ways of measuring success, which he may have overlooked - but who cares?

"Shaan, seems as if the masses let you down." far from it mister - as you may pick up from reading some of the messages above, or talking to long-time kiters - they are the ones that feel deserted by KSQ.

every day i go to the beach people ask: 'when are you going to do another mag?' - even windsurfers! now i enjoy providing the masses with a forum to use as they see fit - a far more organic way of serving the sport, and the first hundred users seem to be appreciating it.

"Finally the good thing about any magazine is if you dont like it dont read it." hello - we don't read it.

finally, if anyone finds anyone elses comments or opinions to be 'personal' - they should perhaps specifically itemise these and make their own points or corrections as everyone is welcome to do. that's how disputes are resolved.

see you at the beach - shakers is firing!

go the all blacks! i predict a 30 point pasting for the aussies - followed by england getting crushed by the frogs by at least 12 points.

in case of the unthinkable - check this out: Two Kiwis boarded a flight out of Sydney after Australia had won the Rugby World Cup. One sat in the window seat and the other sat in the middle seat. Just before take-off, an Aussie got on and took the aisleseat. After take-off, the Aussie kicked his shoes off, wiggled his toes and was settling in when the Kiwi in the window seat said, "I think I'll get up and get a beer." "No problem," said the Aussie, "I'll get it for you."

While he was gone, one of the Kiwi's picked up the Aussie's shoe and spat in it. When he returned with the beer, the other Kiwi said, "That looks
good, I think I'll have one too." Again, the Aussie obligingly went to fetch it
and while he was gone, the other Kiwi picked up the other shoe and spat
in it.

When the Aussie returned to his seat, they all sat back and enjoyed
the flight. As the plane was landing, the Aussie slipped his feet
into his shoes and knew immediately what had happened. "Why does it
have to be this way?" he asked. "How long must this go on? This fighting between our nations?

This hatred? This animosity? This spitting in shoes, and pissing in beers?"

Steve Dickinson - writing again - just to make sure you know who it is .

Shaan
You now resort to making pitiable accusations in a public forum that unfortunately now need to be answered.

Miller wrote:
We will no doubt continue our correspondence if, as I suspect, he tries to wangle out of his advertising contract

All we have asked you to do is remove our advert because of the personal insults directed at individuals not us, not the magazine, some of the material has been deleted, some remains but we have made no mention of payments.

Your pathetic comments and tiny suspicions are wrong and offensive.

Anyone reading your childish ranting must wonder at the serious unresolved issues you have.

If you think that the way this forum has degenerated does the kiteboarding community any good you cast further doubts on your perception of success.

and all i have asked is for aggrieved parties to clearly identify what remarks they find personally insulting.

obviously this is a very subjective area. some things are clearly in the public domain, and some people are widely known, and their actions are matters of public record, and public interest.

when we talk with or about a person in any context, much of it by necessity is 'personal'. this is not in itself a good or bad thing - we are all personally involved in this sport. clearly there is a line about people's personal lives (i.e. their relationships, family, spiritual beliefs etc etc) that have nothing to do with the subject of this forum and should not be crossed.

also, 'personal' insults directed at individuals are not on, in this forum or in any part of our society. where these have taken place , usually by anonymous losers, i have been quick to delete the offending posts.

when i myself have been questioned in this area, i have apologised and deleted even my own remarks when someone has shown personal insult, even when i would have been totally comfortable saying what i said to the person's face. i recognise there is a difference between having a boisterous disagreement with your mates over a few beers, and having the whole saga displayed in public to be taken out of context by people who have no idea about the history, or senses of humour of the people involved.

i am also aware that one man's humor is another man's offence and try to moderate this forum with this in mind - not an easy job i can assure you, and one that requires constant learning on my part. hopefully others will also learn to use it responsibly. if it all gets to be too much of a pain in the ass, we've all got better things to get on with - kiting in particular.

we are a brotherhood of kiters who often bitch at each other - usually in a spirit of good humour, but at the end of the day we will still catch each others kites at the beach and get stoked when we see even our enemies progressing in the sport.

steve: for the record, i did delete some posts that were mindlessly insulting toward you and your mag, and will continue to do that, even without your advertising support.

i will also allow kiters to vent their spleens about any relevant subject - even when i don't agree with their opinions. morons will always accuse me of sharing their views, or even authoring them myself but as i've shown i am more than happy to articulate my own thoughts in this or any other forum.

keep at it steve! if you believe in what you're doing - you don't need my support. i wish you and your industry a great future together. one day you should even try kiteboarding - just for the fun of it - it's a helluva good time! then you might get a better idea of what it is we do and why we're so excited about it. you never know, it might even help you in your self-appointed occupation. (just a thought)

"I TELL YOU WHAT, IF I COULD COME ACROSS YOU CLOWNS THAT GET ON HERE GIVING PEOPLE SHIT I WOULD FUCKEN TEAR YOU APART.
BUT ONCE AGAIN YOU FEEL SAFE SITTING BEHIND YOUR KEYBOARDS DON'T YOU.

WELL LOOK OUT BECAUSE ONE DAY YOU WILL SLIP UP AT THE BEACH AND I WILL BE THERE WAITING FOR THAT MOMENT TO TEACH YOU FUCKERS SOME RESPECT.

YOURS DAYS ARE NUMBERED FUCKERS................. "

Arnie had better grammar...

People wrote their opinions on this site, you might not like them but it's probably the most accurate feedback on the mag you could get. And you respond with this? Tragic.

Pull yourself together.

Steve Dickinson is writing this

Dear kinawera
Let me say this one more time! The only commentary on this forum that either I or my staff have written clearly states that we said it -
Anything which is penned under a pseudonym or by the blind timid term guest has not been penned by us

Whoever wrote the above (in capitals) has their own axe to grind it has nothing to do with us and it is insulting to think that youd think otherwise.

A lot of the veiled threats and key board bravado seen in this forum - would disappear if people had the testicular fortitude to put their real name to their commentary.

Point taken - I unreservedly apologise to you!

But the message to whoever did write this little number remains the same - it's poor form.

KANE HARTILL WRITING THIS TIME - AFTER A MEDIUM LENGTH ABSENCE- JUST SO YOU KNOW WHO IT IS.

I see things spiced up a bit here recently. I take it the deleted bits were pretty drab anyhow? All I'll say is the mag quality is great, the cover is the best yet and if folks wanna complain about lack of local content then they can go ....... because folks can't expect the mag to pull local content out of their ass and I've seen bugger all effort from kiters nation wide. I'm tired after being savaged by warm dry winds for three days and now I feel an obligation toward the unenviable sorry task of squeezing out in the next few days a possibly uninspired collection of words covering the countries first ever organised snowkiting gathering back in October. Then maybe I could write a short little something to complement the assuredly very scenic photos of the wind raked alpine wonderland that is Lake Clearwater. Then there'll be the double overhead, cross off rainbowland of Colac bay in the deep South soon..... But why should I? No real use in it. I could churn out photos and tall stories to bulk out much of every issue but I expect people are already sick of seeing my ugly mug. Maybe Chris should save money on Velvia, Steph should put down the Sony and get more water time herself, and I should just get some sleep instead so I can put more energy into riding.

kane: just keep telling your stories here man - and you can whack photos up as well. like those hamiltonian cats that had their raglan session recorded for posterity and uploaded the day it happened. pure positivity!

that is good use of the medium - costs no-one a cracker and is free to all who are interested in our sport. more versatile, relevant and environmentaly sound than a mag in my humble opinion.

reading back through this hilarious thread, i note a few things that still need to be addressed by the good folks at non-specific media.

firstly, it all started with three high profile and respected national riders; chris, kent and kane having a rant about their treatment in the past. their specific points remain totally ignored by steve dickinson's emotionally charged replies further down the track. i reckon the whole thread could have been de-fused right at the beginning by simple answers to the southern men's gripes and assurances that things are now different or are going to get better or some such flowery words.

without any reply from the publisher, more and more people jumped on the bandwagon offering their two cents. i attempted to moderate, deleted a few bits of lunacy and even tried to keep the peace. given my recent attempts to let by-gones be by-gones and actually work with pacific media i had no intention of getting involved in wind & kite bashing myself (they are after all a ridiculously easy target and somewhat demeaning to the serious shootist).

steve's next move was to pull the pin on his advertising, which wound me up a little considering at that point i thought i had done nothing to harm our tiny business relationship. [this has now been resolved after some correspondence on the subject with pacific media - they have now (19/11/03) decided to honour their advertising contract and leave their ad unchanged - ultimately proving my earlier suspicion incorrect.]

what blows me away though is steve dickinson's non-specific reasoning, about personal insults, which when given the opportunity to explain, he chooses not to do. how can anything be done about your grievances steve, if you don't tell us what they are?

surely you know what it's like when people gob off about your mags and say stuff like 'there's no local content' and don't elaborate or get down to specifics, and when given the right of reply or a chance to do something about it, turn them down preferring to harbour their unexplained points of view.

admittedly, most people simply don't have the communication skills or energy to engage in intelligent, meaningful debate but you are in the business of communication and as you've shown you are prepared to have a go.

heaps of other people get all freaked out by confrontation, and see all confict as negative - even though it is often the way to make progress and can have many positive outcomes.

the all black's latest debacle is a classic example: there are many poor cretins in this country whose whole life is rugby and who are now engaged in a firestorm of blood-letting, much of which will take the form of full scale personal abuse and insult. this is because they are extremely wound up about negative events that impact their passion.

and there will be a bunch of do-gooders who will show up on www.ruggerhead.co.nz and say 'you guys are really mean to each other. i was thinking about getting into rugby and now i realise you're just a bunch of whining jackasses...and another thing, you should stop crashing into each other and just let the guy run with the ball otherwise you could get some nasty bumps and bruises!'

remember why we're here, everyone and goodnight...