Hi, I'm just starting out kite surfing and have searched the web for basic instructions on how 4 line kites work with respect to harnesses - unsuccessfully. The way I see it, by pushing the bar away form you, the back of the kite lifts up and lets more wind under it, thus reducing power-right? So when it all goes pear-shaped and you let go of the bar, it travels out along the centre lines, de-powering the kite. This, I understand (if I'm right!) My problem is, what happens if the loop on the end of the centre lines slips off the harness? Full power and disaster? Does it get permenantly connected to the harness? If so, how? if not, how do you stop it falling off when launching and during disasters? Do you launch with it disconnected, then hook it on when the kite has some wind in it?

if you can't figure this out u really really need to get some lessons

GET SOME PROFESSIONAL LESSONS! even one two hour one just to get the basics sorted.

or at least a hand from an experienced kitesurfer but proper lessons would be better

if you don't understand how the bar and lines work you aren't ready to go in the water or even fly the kite


Craig

Orion:

Unhooked disasters are way cool, I have been working on this manoeuvre for some time .... Yes you unhook the loop thing from the hooky bit & yes this does make the back lines power up so you are maxing out - Dont let go.... Edge it & boost!!! Very very good fun!!!



But as doofus so wisely suggests, do not try to run (boost) before you have learnt to walk (tea-bag). Get some lessons from someone who has the ability to feed your hunger for knowledge... pay attention & pay them well.

Whereabouts are you living?

In Auckland! Thanks for the info, still don't understand how you stop the loop fallin off the harness! I can see how there would be a constant pull on it once you're up and running thus keeping it in place but what about while you're on the beach getting the thing up?! It seems a bit of bad design and somewhat unsafe that a moment of slack on the lines and a touch of gravity at the wrong moment has you flying off into the wild blue yonder under full power!

it just works

newer bars have a "donkey dick" which is used to keep the loop in and you then use the release.

there is nearly always tension on the lines if the kite is flying. If theres no tension it's because the kite is crashing and then u have more to worry about than your loop falling off.

If it did come unhoooked then u could just let go of the bar. Let go of the bar and kite will drop on the leash. (as long as it has been rigged correctly). You should always have a leash on your kite. There are some guys who don't use one for whatever reason but they are more of a minority these days as better systems have been invented.

Hope that helps
Craig

Orion dude, stop searching on the net for info about how to kite!
Never mind about details such as donkey dicks & where to stick your loop...


Go & get some lessons and all will be revealed.


You could get Lee to teach you in the meat department of foodtown whilst buying 3 for 1 at the Best price... Or alternatively you could come to Raglan for a weekend & I can get you to do your first downwinder on lesson 3 - no retailing pressure, just learning the basics of kiting in ideal conditions.

Orion you're a f#$%*%g idiot. Or perhaps your life isn't worth the relatively paltry sum in relation to the cost of 3 lessons that I believed mine was...you're just the kind of kook we all REALLY want to give kiting a bad name when you have an easily avoidable accident...

and just make sure when the kite lines go slack (if you don't have a donkey dick, which all us regulars have standard, just ask the chicks) PUSH THE BAR AWAY FROM YOURSELF so you don't lose tension on the loop... better still, get a 'dick....that way you'll definitely be attached to your kite when you lose control and then we won't have to worry 'bout you no more...

Nice one Onion, now stop taking the piss and go get your lesson.

Hey Orion don't let these monsters get to ya. You don't need to pay someone to teach ya how to kite. Come on over eastside and we'll teach ya for free. We even have beaches where it wouldn't matter even IF things really went bad.

Out here we have tonnes of guys who are in exactly the same position you are and we'd far rather have beginners out this way than good 4 nuttin fuckwit pros who think they own the beach.

In answer to your question. You don't need a donkey dick. i've never had one on my chickenloop and to be honest dude they are freaken dangerous. Most nasty accidents are caused by guys not being able to unhook in that split second before they are lofted and slammed into an immovable object.

If the worst comes to the worst and you do happen to come unhooked you may have to pull on the bar towards ya to hookin again. If you aint that powered then it won't be hard... and when you start out you don't wanna be powered so there is no problem. However if you weren't able to hookin again and things got outa hand then let go and the saftey line will do the rest. You are better off having a decent saftey system on your kite than a freakin donkey dick.

Where abouts in auckland r ya man? I kite out eastside from Bucklands beach eastwards. Perfect learning beaches out this way... mite see ya out here sometime.

Bucky boyz will see you lofting into downwind obstacles & run to help afterwards....

Proffesional lessons are the only way to begin to comprehend the sport. Anyone telling you different is just going to create problems for other beach users & the possibility of council bans rears it's ugly head ( not to mention your possible death or dismemberment ).

Learning to kite requires a sideshore breeze for maximum time on the water & quick progression.

Ask the " pro's who think they own the beach " what you should do & their advice will be same as above.

Orion - where did you get your kite?

Thrasher - Nice one offering him some free lessons, but I reckon 'mite see ya out here sometime' may be too late.
________________________________

Newcomers - people will learn, but this ain't a sport where learning by your mistakes is a wise idea. It is not even a question of your pre kiting/boardriding skill ability because in kiteboarding there are times when you may find yourself in a situation you sooooooo wished you were not in. Knowledge from decent lessons will help you make the right choices so you do not find yourself in these situations.

Also - the safety of other people on or around the beach are far more important than you. If in doubt, don't go out - go drive to another beach.
It just takes one incident to royally cock things up for everyone. Fortunately most experienced riders in these parts are VERY clued up.

Get lessons - you will probably have to pay because the last thing most experienced riders/trainers want to do is teach someone for free when they could be enjoying riding themselves.

There seems to be lots of hostilty out there! Thank you those of you who responded with constructive postings. To put everyone elses minds at ease, I am not a 'kook' or a 'fucking idiot' and have not been spending every spare minute out on packed beaches endangering my life and the lives of those around me, or giving you all a bad name. I simply thought it might be wise to get some advice from some people with experience.

Most sports I've been inovlved with have encouraged and embraced new members. I am suprised and dissapointed to find that this is not necessarily the case in kite surfing circles. I realise that the views expressed here are not the views of everyone and that there are those of you who want to promote your sport. I hope that as I learn and improve I encounter the positive people!

Thrasher, I might take you up on your offer!

Orion don't fear some guys just like havin a little rant. They just want everyone to be safe.

I'm new to the sport and contrary to many of the articles / postings, I've found most of the guys in the sport are very friendly. They're keen for a chat and always happy to give advice, well that's what I've found at almost every beach I've gone to, Orewa included.

Like I say I'm still getting to grips with the sport but it's awesome when you start doing it!

Oh yeah be safe, get someone to give you some saftey pointers... Thought I should add that too...

Orion dude,

We have a life threatening sport that is totally unregulated by any national body.
The comments you are getting that sound like angst are trying to warn you that to attempt to teach yourself to kite or get help from a mate is to risk your own personal safety , the other beach goers and the future of the sport at your beach. It is also a waste of good riding time!!!

When I started I had one lesson & I wish I'd had more as it took me a long time to figure out how to relaunch the kite in raglans strong current. Trial & error is such a waste of time when you can be taught the techniques & common mistakes in a couple of hours.

It is so typical of us kiwis to try to do everything by ourselves...
I have warned people about dangerous practices & the consequences - which they duely ignore - only to end up having the exact kitemare that they've been warned about.

Today at Raglan, a guy severely Gashed his leg open because of using a surfboardleash, two guys before him have each had 7 stitches in the back of the head - They were warned, but had to find out the hard way.
We had a very gusty wind change this evening & while the cut - leg drama was taking place some dude didn't secure his kite & it took out my mates kite so he had 2 kites dragging him down the beach, this kind of complacency sucks.
Since Doug was killed recently, it's time to take a long hard look at our self regulation, people have to respect what experienced riders & instructors are saying.

Orion,

you need some lessons because the dangers are not as obvious as you think they are when you're starting out. a lot of them only become apparent through hard-won experience or from talking to others much more experienced than yourself. However asking on here doesn't really work as things are a bit hard to explain in writing.

another thing is that the internet can be a lot nastier than real life as it offers a degree of anonymity leading to people being a lot ruder than they would be otherwise.

but when u look at the price of decent lessons compared to the price of a kite or even to lost earnings and doctors bills, they look like a good idea.


oh and I don't run lessons either by the way,
I learnt the hard way about kiteleashes, boardleashes, and big concrete walls

Hey Orion the small minority of people with anger problems who kite aren't doing anyone else a favour by ranting and raving and putting newcomers off the sport. There is a place for all the bad vibes but the angus is probably best directed as enargy for busting badass moves in a comp... not for scaring people off. I think the combination of cranking wind, 9-5 work and bumper to bumper traffic is starting to stirr up some rage in a few guys up north of the great divide.

Yeah man i don't kite much at the mo but i can give ya plenty of pointers at the beach and if the conditions are right it won't be too hard. One of the guys out this way is an ex kiteboarding instructor so it'll be all good.

The conditions are everything. If the conditions are wrong then as has been pointed out in boldface red lettering etc..... it can be dangerous. Other dangers to consider are crowds (both kiters and others), depth of water, currents, stationary objects like rocks etc or things on the beach like trees, powerlines, 747s etc (well that's not stationary but needless to say they should be avoided). Selecting a beach is everything... especially in Auckland as we have so many places to kite here.

It really is best to stay away from popular spots like Orewa, Shakers, Shoal Bay, Pt Chev, Muriwai, Sandspit etc. They are great places to kite but they are not 4 beginners. These spots are either too crowded with kiters if it's goin off... or with everyone else if it ain't. Either that or there are nasty obstacles, currents etc (as in Shoal Bay or the sandspit)... and muriwai is a west coast beach... need i say more?

As for lessions. Yes they can come in handy but i personally would never take a lession from anyone if they are at the above beaches....

As it's now summer the winds will start getting lighter hopefully and will be much safer.

So all you need then is a kite with a working safety leash (no donkey dick) and have good kiteflying skills and a lightwind board (i have plenty of those) and the ESSK boys will show ya the way. Lot's of us are in the same position that you are out this way. There are no bad attitudes out east.

my 2 cents

as for lesions. they never come in handy and i personally would never take a lesion from anyone regardless of their beach affiliation.

Ha ha Ha a haaa!!!!

BRUTAL soul surfer.... I can't wait for bashers response to that or pehaps it was too subtle & he won't even get the joke & just resort to more verbal abuse & rantings about the BUCKYBOYZ :roll: :oops:
THESE ARE COOL !!!!!!

this has been said already in this post, but maybe one more voice will help:

bro get a lesson from a real instructor. there is nothing better. it may be expensive, but you will be so much better off and so much happier after your first day. you'll be with someone that can help you if things do go wrong.

as someone best descibed it to me, kiteboarding is like being tied to a f-ing wild horse in the sky. if you don't know how to stay supple and react to it's quirks you're going to hate the sport, and possibly end up even injured.

if it wasn't readily obvious, most of the people encouraging you to get lessons are really experienced riders and have been in your position before. heed their warnings! be wary of others saying you don't need lessons, and that they'll teach you for free. will they be able to save you if things go wrong?

Orion..I can't really say much more...except, imagine that you are wakeboarding. And going really fast. Suddenly, you crash into the water. But you can't let go. And the boat, instead of slowing down to a gentle stop, actually speeds up. And grows wheels. And drives up onto the beach, through the carpark and onto the road. All this time you are being dragged behind it, collecting every post, car, van, small child and 747 in sight. I don't mean to be an alarmist but the guy who said it si dangerous is on the money, I can't think of a sport with the same potential to transform a person from a fullsome adonis to wet meat in such a short period of time. Get a lesson. You might even like it.

heehee I like the bit about the boat that grows wheels, its so true

what about the boat that grows wings and carries you over the sanddunes

That all sounds a bit scary... I have just committed to a lesson at Bayswater to consolidate some basics I picked up in Australia. I need a re-introduction to all of the basics. Is it really that busy this time of year around this beach, I really just want to learn some safety basics and get up the confidence to be able to head out by myself....

thats so funny karve, wet meat bro, damm ur a poet bla bla ..anyways get lessons if only accouple doit. i gotta get out east again real soon c wats up out there, i live out that way but keep headin 4 the coast lol, i guess u get that. b safe kids. 8)

Hi Orion,

I run the Pt.Chev. Kitesurf School. I have taught hundreds of people over the past four years how to get into this great sport in a safe way.
And I am up to date with the latest safety systems, the pros and cons and how to make them work best for you.

There are a lot of things you can do to keep yourself and others out of trouble.

Give me a ring if you haven't found a good instructor already.
(See my profile.)

Ahhhh...
would that be where all these infamous drift launching learners would be comming from then???

Yep - he taught me how to drift launch. And how to rig my kite upside down. F(%k all that shit - that's the easy way to get hauled off downwind when your lines get tangled. I'd thoroughly recommend (at the expense of his trainer kite tips) he taught 'em how to self launch, or preferably just to wait until someone launches them. IKO definitely got this one wrong.

Hi Tangled and JK,

Yes that is me, I teach the way off letting the kite drift downwind on the water. And I know it is very easy to get your lines tangled in the process.
So I put a lot of emphasis on how to do it without getting the lines tangled.
And all the little things and steps to prevent tangled lines have to be done to make it work.

I use this methode myself in strong winds when it is not safe to be on the land with a kite at all, yet I still want to go out. And almost all the times I do it without tangled lines.

Since 95% off the kite accidents happen while kiters are on the land with the kite in the air, it makes complete sense to learn how to do the first launch off the water and to learn how to pack it up on the water.

But point taken, in the beginning the chance of tangled lines is big. And I do teach the beach lanch as well now. And I always did teach it if requested. If you are capable of using both options, you can choose depending on the weather conditions.

Compared to the drift launch the launch of the beach is very easy to learn. Yet for inexperienced kiters it takes a while to be able to estimate if the conditions are safe or not for launching of the beach.

By the way the drift launch is not an IKO launching methode. I added it to the lessons, since it enables people to go out kiting in gusty and strong winds where it would be plain old dangerous to be on the land with the kite. And when there is nobody at the waters edge to hold up the kite for them.
It enables those who are learning to eliminate all the risks of being on the land with the kite up. And safety is higher on my agenda than the quick and easy way, which is completely fine in safe conditions.

Anyway I teach both methodes so people can choose.

By the way Tangled did you do all three water sessions with me? That is the minimum amount of lessons wherein I can teach how to go about everything safely. AS well as repeat the drift launch enough times to get it sussed.

If you are not happy with the way I taught you, you can tell me and I can adapt or change to suit your needs and that way see to it that you are happy with what you learn. So feel free to contact me if you want to work out something that you feel happy with.

Happy Kiting,

Hahahaha!!! "kite drift launch method."

My mate Katasrophic has tried this one once.... it's probably still drifting!!!

So if any one in port waikato/ kariotahi or port vila comes across a 9m slingshot fuel with attached vermicelli, please return to Katastrophic Kite Kook henceforth. You'll find him boosting at the river mouth on his brand spankin' new '05 slingshot kites....

P.S. He's a little forum-shy so you won't contact him on here.

P.P.S Good to see Bubba down here on the weekend, crankin' on 7's, yeeah boy!

A loving F^%^KYAAAA to all my brothers

In the same way a small camel can suck from its mothers milk and keep from the burning desert heat in the shade of its mothers hump so the beginner kiter can bask in the barrage of bullshit that is disseminated from the dumb and the dumber on this forum.

Brother suckling get a lesson take not the mountain of camel poop written here as anything more than the ravings of those who have little better to do but most with good intention. Amongst these words is some good advise but simply read some of the literary prowess here and youll see you do not need to be a brain surgeon to participate in this uplifting sport in fact you don't even need to tie your own shoes.

Death has a way of really spoiling your fun to avoid it seek an edification and youll be all the better for it plus you will live longer.

And in this tutoring argument where are the words of our brother Lee?

Hazel sends her love to all

what's the drift launch method? Never heard of it.

The drift launch method is when you try and rig your kite upside down whilst being down-wind of your kite, pretend that your left hand is your right hand and that your right hand is your left hand, or as I had to do, lie on my back and figure it out that way; make sure your steering line passes under your power line instead of over it, then gather up all of your carefully untangled lines, drag the whole freaking kit out "2 line lengths form the beach" (read oysters & rock walls) and then just LET IT ALL GO! Hope like f*%*%k that nothin got tangled on the way - which it invariably does - then brace yourself for the inevitable krazy uncontrolled kitelooping session and impact that follows whilst you use up those "2 line lengths" really quick...

Great way to each beginers, for shizzle! I thoroughly recommend Pt Chev Kite School....

When I learned kitesurfing there were no instructors around in Auckland yet.

In my first month of kitesurfing I had a near-accident. That luckily didn't turn into a near death-experience, but it was scary.
Needless to say I was looking for a way to prevent this from happening again.

Shortly after that somebody taught me the drift launch.
Since then I have NEVER been pulled around on the beach anymore.
I soon learned how to do it without getting my lines tangled and I have used it succesfullty for many years now.
So this launch method has proven to be very very valuable to me. And many students have used this methode succesfully.

In a sport where even trained instructors have VERY serious accidents after a beach launch. It is worth cutting out the risks as much as possible.
So I use the beach launch in safe conditions and the water (drift) launch when the conditions are not safe!

I am sorry to hear it didn't work out for you Tangled. I am happy to teach you this method for free to the point that you have mastered it . That is if you are interested to learn it.

Cheers bro! Nice to know you're still there for me. Brings a tear to my eye. But seriously, with all the fancy new launching safety systems they're bringing out, it's dangerous to to drag your kite for any kind of distance, you're going to get tangled up sooner or later, without a doubt, and get a dragging.

I've tried the drag and drop method, and see Armie do it - it's a great way to save your tips, but if the launching is that sketchy,and you haven't mastered the self-launch, where you can see that every thing is operating OK before you lift off, then, well, go home and watch a kitesurf video instead.

Hey Orion, any trips to the hospital yet?

I've used a drift launch successfully once at Shoal Bay when it was high tide (therefore no sandbar) and no-one else around willing to get wet to help me launch. Probably not something I'll do often but I got a session I would otherwise have missed.

Raggers did indeed go off on the weekend Skyrider. Half an hour there is worth 2 hours anywhere else.

Laters

I've seen a few people use this drift launch method. Looks freakin dodgy ass to me. If a launch is that dodgy that you have to use this method then either head to another beach, come back at a dffferent tide or go windsurfing instead.

Whilst the standard self launch method isn't entirely foolproof there isn't much that can go wrong. Then again if you knew how to get the drift launch method sussed without tangling lines then it would be awesome... but is this method foolproof? I could definately see myself hashin it up and i'm not the only dumbass around here.

Then again if shit was to hit the fan... then i'd rather be on water than on land. Better method still is to go kiting with others.... then someone can launch ya kite for ya... that way it's 100% foolproof.

Jesus!!!! I think I'll take your word for it.

The pete lynn method rules. Just walk backwards from the boot of the car throwing handfulls of line thru the car park randomly. Launch the kite solo and shake some of the knots out as the kite charges skyward, then take hold the vee of the frontlines and chuck the bar thru the lines a few times to get the twists out of the backlines all this while the kite is aloft!!.
Has to be witnessed to believe it!
Makes the drift method look positively safe. not that I plan to ever try it.
See YA Adrian

That sounds suspiciously like the Big Nose method of launching. Get some innocent bystander amping to get his own ass out there to "hold my kite for a second", then proceed to unravel the birds nest while yelling "just a second longer", then half an hour later, after every other kiter and the odd bystander's been enlisted to pull lines out from under car tyres and windscreen wipers, finally be in a position to say "cheers bro, be here when I get back - oh, and can you lock the car for me and keep an eye on the kids. I'll give you twenty bucks...."

[quote="Adrian Roper"]The pete lynn method rules. Just walk backwards from the boot of the car throwing handfulls of line thru the car park randomly. Launch the kite solo and shake some of the knots out as the kite charges skyward, then take hold the vee of the frontlines and chuck the bar thru the lines a few times to get the twists out of the backlines all this while the kite is aloft!!.
Has to be witnessed to believe it!
Makes the drift method look positively safe. not that I plan to ever try it.
See YA Adrian

The best thing about the pete lynn launching method is that i am not pete lynn......

Some of the things mentioned above remind me of somebody who probably had only one lesson with me and/or forgot most of the stuff I taught him. This was a year and a bit ago.

I was on the next beach 1 km downwind and saw this guy dragging his kite out on the water keeping it belly up all the way (that way making sure the flapping tips rap the front lines around the back lines) and then with the lines rapped up and the kite still belly up he just let go of the kite. The kite was flipping around on the water followed by an out of control dragging.

Even though he got most of it wrong he did start far enough away from the land to still be in the water after all this. So he and his kite were both in one piece yet shaken up.

This is not the way I teach the drift launch!

Pretty much every student gets it right the first time while following my instructions.

When you take motorbike riding lessons and your instructor tells you not to apply the breaks while going through a corner and you pull the front wheel break in a corner on a rainy day.

Can you blame the instructor for sliding of the road?

Can you blame instructors for the accidents that have happened after beach launches?

If you do the drift launch right the chance of being dragged out of control is as big as with a launch on the land. But the consequences are quite different.

Do you hurt yourself while being dragged through the water?

Do you hurt yourself while being dragged over the land?

Best to learn all the methods available and use the one best suited for the conditions.


Anyway enough serious reply to anonymous kiters.
Now I am going to have some fun, then kick myself off the computer and get on the water.

You have to have big balls to make big jumps.
When you use a windsurf seat-harnass for kiting should you sue the manufacturer after a wedgee because you cant have children anymore? (After all there was no warning on the harnass mentioning your now rainbow colored balls!).
Some people think this is the way to make their American dream come true.

Have you seen those cool kiters out there with a leash and no helmet? They are so tough they can take a board knock in the head anytime. The question is will they wake up? if they do. before or after the knocking?

Some kiters are drag queens.

Happy new year and happy kiting.

still no one answered his question

I find if you pull in on bar when launching you lose power, so when arms extended or bar let go when hooked in the power must be greatest.

i taught myself, but would recommend lessons as I'm still a kook.

anyone in nelson into helping me out? I've only done 6 days so far and can almost go up wind.

Another tip if you are going to buy any gear put it up on forum for people to advise on, I got a windtools booster of lee and its a sluggish beast which he said was good.