Anyone had a crack on the "BEST" kite range yet?

Mind you at that price what does it matter.

I am herding
no that is the sheep

I am hearing 'best' kites - you can get three kites, all the gear for less than $2000

can this be true?

You cannot buy a camel for less than this

I got an email from Anabatic about best kites they looked well priced but I don't know anythign about them

Remember all the shit stired up about my supposed "China Kites".
Guess what, same software, same manufacturer. Oops

Yes Best Kites are good.

I was more interested if anyone had ridden their boards

The boards are very much low speed wake style boards.

They have a reasonable amount of rocker which makes them great for freestyle low level tricks but also makes them harder to edge and get up wind.

best kiteboarding - what a shitstorm this revolutionary company has caused overseas. after listening to local importer's knee-jerk reactions i finally did some research on the subject and read pages of blather on international forums, visited the website etc.

in my humble opinion, shannon best and money man alex shogren (thankfully the brains behind the operation) have developed a business model for kiteboarding whose time has well and truly come.

using a slick website and back-end organisation they have simply cut out two redundant steps in the distribution process, and dropped prices to almost ridiculous levels, compared to the status quo.

for the first time, anyone can now log on to the source, make an order, pay a reasonable sum, and a week later get some solid-looking kit plus the odd free kite (i'm not making this up) shipped to them free of charge.

established manufacturers who rely on a far more cumbersome system to generate their millions are far from stoked and will do everything in their power to blow the new punk on the block right out of the neighbourhood. they will ban best riders from competing in comps, refuse to advertise in magazines who humor the upstarts, claim shannon best is the devil and that's just for starters. to them, best's strategy flys in the face of all their unwritten laws. at best (excuse the pun) best kiteboarding is a complete pain in the ass, and at worst could seriously damage their market share and hit them hard in the place it hurts the most - the pocket right over their right butt cheek.

unfortunately for them, free market capitalism will probably prevail. best's successes will inspire many copycats and even the big boys will have to adjust their strategies to meet the challenges.

manufacturers, distributors and retailers are by necessity concerned with just three things; 1). making loot, 2). their own survival and, 3). making loot. they will tell you very loudly, the only way that has always worked, and will always work is the current arrangement.

kiters, on the other hand, are only concerned with kiting as much as possible before they die, and being able to afford it while they're alive. for the first time, there is the beginning of a power-shift toward the kiter.

traditionally, a few people have made most of the decisions and most of the money. people they have decided on, or made alliances with along the way have made a few of the decisions and a bit of the money. finally the consumer, has made the least amount of decisions and paid all the money. kiting (and certainly windsurfing) have been top-down scenarios, where all knowledge, and hardware have flown downhill from a few sources to the masses beneath, with profits working their way backwards. not so long ago, magazines completely controlled the flow of information and, like in the real world, they pandered to the wants and needs of the ruling elite - the establishment who paid the bills.

the internet has changed all that, has made information sharing possible at a grass-roots level, and will continue to give consumers many more choices and power. increasingly, we are dealing with a more level playing field.

i've never paid retail for a single article of kiting kit, but who wouldn't rather pay less for their equipment? when you break it down, every kite that is sold at retail in this country costs over three times what it cost to produce. this is often confused for what the kite is actually worth but of course it costs large amounts to get a kite or a board to the stage of having it cranked out by asian workers. a manufacturer must employ a bunch of people to do R&D, make patterns or presses with expensive kit and software, house their operations, insure them, market the product, deal with team riders and a million incidentals that make up the running of any business. rightly so, these guys make a buck by economies of scale - making a little bit of profit on a lot of units. no-one begrudges them this.

the ticket-clipping starts in earnest when the gear leaves the factory. a chunk of cash goes to the freight companies, then there's the insurance, storage, distribution and finance overheads of the importers plus a reasonable margin before the gear arrives at the retail store. i don't have an issue with this either - these guys risk hundreds of thousands of dollars, deal with all the tax and duty dramas and in the present system, should be compensated. if you are lucky enough to buy gear at wholesale or less, you are still paying your dues, and kiting is a whole lot more feasible as a sport.

the corner kiting shop is where another hefty margin is added. this pays for the retailer's considerable overheads and lifestyle. at best (not the brand), the consumer may get some helpful advice, support and lessons out of the whole deal.

proficient kiters are by and large not in need of any retail level support, in fact they could usually teach their local retailers a thing or three about the sport they participate in daily. these are the guys that will quickly warm to the idea of paying a hell of a lot less for their gear - not because of any great love for shannon best - or any hatred for their local retailers.

at the same time many newcomers to the sport will still prefer hands-on instruction and support from human beings. retailers are one obvious and accepted way of providing this and they will continue to do business as before. as technology and information increases - i reckon this will become less, not more.

in the future, i see direct network marketing as being the logical and fairest way of getting goods to the marketplace. companies could sell online to anyone with a 10% margin built in for the referrer / and or safety certifier. this way, people who introduce their friends to the sport, and get them safely up to speed to the point of buying kit, are compensated for it. the better they are at it, the greater their personal sales volume - the more support and training they get from the company - the more money they make, and eventually they might get their own gear for free. this is efficient and fair, as they are the true heroes of the sport. everybody wins, even the existing importers and retailers who straight away have contacts and networks in place to milk this system better than anyone.

like everyone else, i've taught a bunch of people to kite (approx. 30) and have then referred them to various people and places to buy their gear. what have i recieved in return? not a cracker. does this motivate me to bring people into the sport, mentor them and keep them charging?

anyway, back to the current reality:

what's hilarious is best's strategy of having a retailer as representative / contact point for internet dummies in each country. here's where the current picture gets really confusing and will cause the most action. anabatic's lee mcclelland is the 'best man' on the ground here, yet his whole existence has been propped up by three or four local importers; naish, slingshot, peter lynn and wipika. like any retailer, lee's function is to man the trenches, engage in constant intercine warfare with the other retailers and sell the importers product to his catch of punters - hopefully giving them a fair whack of his earnings. lee may see his role as somewhat different - and reportedly, does actually claim to run kiting in auckland. either way, he has brought many into this sport and has assisted in their development as kiters, and been paid for it.

by getting hooked up with best, he has taken a punt each way and is now dealing with a company dedicated to doing away with retailers, except for one token rep on the ground - him. stand back and watch the fireworks!

the laughable thing is anyone can by-pass anabatic and get best's best straight from the horse's mouth and deny lee his modest potential cut. if anabatic sells best, the margin is so small that it's unlikely free lessons can be offered (as per the other brands) which defeats the only advantage of the retail experience in the first place. meanwhile he has to deal with the wrath of his business associates, who will get uglier and uglier as the impact starts affecting them more, if the overseas trip is anything to go by.

an interesting conundrum in my book.

this brings me to another point. you may nod off now or take a short recess.

every brand that enters the market causes a bit of hype to begin with and they always settle down to realise how tough the business really is. i'm sure best will play out the same, but here, for the first time joe kiter has a genuine wildcard with a potentially superior business plan to choose from - or if he wants to look at it another way: cheap kites.

i frist rode with shannon best a few years ago on maui, when we were both newbies to the sport. his solid wakeboard background made him a rare breed in that windsurf-dominated era, but besides a few well-powered 50 foot horizontal raileys he was just one of the boys. off the water he was another tattooed bogan at kite beach, albeit with some extra presence and aloha. watching him i knew if he stayed on the rock and off the crack, he'd do very well - but i never had him down as a future captain of industry - let alone a future key player in our industry.

could the company that bears his name be the goose that smashes the golden egg or just another flash in the pan, with amusing sideshows along the way?

you decide.

Great post Shaan, completely sums up the catch 22 situation anyone involved with Best Kites will find themselves in, but also simply explains the concept behind it all.

I have paid full retail for gear and fully suport the Best Kites concept. At this time anyone with any balls should put them to the wall and order thier Best Kites.

I cant help wondering if a 100% NZ owned , designed, but unfortunatly not manufactered kite would get the same support. Would it just be called a " China Kite" and its owner called a spanker for daring to challenge the establishment as they see themselves.

Watch this space for details.

Graeme

all very interesting stuff to be sure, but I can't help thinking that the kiters of today will be sitting around in 1 or 2 seasons time remenising about the good old days when, sure kites cost more than 2 grand... but, you got to go kiting when, where and with whom you wanted

horra horra for best my life is now complete I can now buy on the cheap to the beach to the beach to the beach oh yay to kite with a zillon punters
shit the images of carnage and politics leaves me lost for words...already I say bring back the good old days

Well I'm stoked that I can now finally pick up a replacement bar and lines set at half the price of what it was going to cost me!
About time the price of these over priced toys took a dive!

Yeah sure it is a shame that the part time importers here in NZ are going to feel the squeeze but good on Lee for seeing the gap and doing the sums.

The suggestion that Lee or any other retailer has been propped up by the importers is a little naive as the relationship between retailers and importers is naturally one of co-dependence.

Clearly these importers are smart business people and not charity workers, therefore one can only assume that must have been earning their fair share.

No body stays in a relationship unless they are getting something out of it.

Either way us punters at the bottom of the food chain, who have been keeping everyone in the supply chain afloat, finally get a break.

Just to make sure there are no misconceptions
From Steve Dickinson and Derek Teensma Publisher and editor Wind and Kite Magazine

Dear Shaan
Thanks for your novel
I have read and re read your prosaic undertaking there are elements within in that correct observations but not necessarily accurate evaluations.

As a magazine we deal with retailers, manufactures and importers every day. They are all involved in the industry for two reasons to earn and living and remain connected to a sport that they really enjoy not as you state
manufacturers, distributors and retailers are by necessity concerned with just three things; 1). making loot, 2). their own survival and, 3). making loot.

If, as you are so quick to point out are so ingrained with the sport youd know that there are none locally who make millions and many who struggle from week to week.

Best kites like any other cheaper option will put pressure on the market share and it will reflect not in a price war but most likely in an elitist product development the watch you buy form the 2 dollar shop and the watch you buy from Casio both go on your wrist, both tell the time the only real difference is the price most people dont buy from the 2 dollar shop. Best kites regardless of the impact are part of a natural market process they will either survive or they wont. They will simply find their place in the market.

My complaint is - you dont need to bad mouth the importers, manufactures and retailers who have made a living out of kiteboarding and windsurfing. Your damaged ego and constant innuendo about Anabatic, retailers, importers etc wears thin.


This attitude is not something we wish to support. In particular with advertising please remove it immediately.

thanks steve - always fascinating to have your penetrating analysis on board.

when i wrote about making millions i wasn't refering to specific individuals, but the international industry as a whole. your opinion and mine may differ on motivations - big deal.

your watch analogy is a cracker. there's nothing to suggest a company with a more efficient distribution model can't spend more on r&d and develop better products than anyone else. despite massive attacks from the industry on every other point, no-one overseas has had anything negative to say about design and build quality of the new brand's kites.

i don't think i bad mouth anyone who's made a living out of anything - good on everyone who does. as others have, i have merely pointed out we live in a constantly changing world and i've honestly looked at some aspects of this market through the prism of my experience. i'm sorry this offends you so - but i'll probably get over it.

your constant non-specific innuendo about my alleged constant innuendo gets pretty lame also.

as do your repeated squeals to have your advertising removed. i believe there is approximately one month of your contract to run and until then your ad stays.

if i get the pip with you for voicing some opinion that i don't buy into - and i demand my ad withdrawn, do you recall all the copies and cut each ad out?

you welcome ideas in your signature. my advice is: get over yourself and do something constructive. here's a few suggestions for some new mag titles that are waiting to be represented by your company. try gay and heterosexual magazine (two lifestyles that would love to be represented together) or ford and holden enthusiasts, or rugby and rugby league (codes that share the same sort of playing field and would surely love to read about their sports from a non-participator's perspective).

i look forward to your next knee-jerk response. remember you're always welcome to have your say here!

As seen on kiteforum.com in a post from Kitekarl, Beaverton Oregon USA :

I heard that there's a shortage of material to make boobs in China now so costs will be increasing. Despite this fact there is a new company by the name of Brest that is establishing an internet only distribution chain that should ultimately help availability. Undoubtably, there will be disgruntled traditionalists who will say that Brest is just copying prior designs and that this will eventually lead to one generic design: a monotone boob from inferior materials that is prone to bursting. But don't cry over spilt milk. Eventually, other companies will have to follow suit and offer variations at cheaper prices. Perhaps there will be 1 pump versions, variable sizing for different conditions, built in zippers so that we don't have to fool with that annoying clip in the back when we're too drunk. Perhaps Brest will be banned from beach parties and will be forced to fly giant bras over them advertising half retail prices. Maybe they'll have a buy 2 boobs and get one free deal. Imagine a whole quiver of boobs for the cost of a single boob. Imagine a titty that doesn't jellyfish and provides unbelievable hangtime. We must all envision a world whereby the common boober can boob with the utmost suckurity without fear of head injuries forced by lack of innovation from current titty models. Perhaps having a boober in the whitehouse will help our cause. Affordable breast care for everyone. Yes my friends, 2004 is an erection year and I'm putting my money where my mouth is. I'm voting for John Kerry and Brest. We're gonna blast through the cockuses and give Bush a run for the money. When the Brest girls come to your town stand up and shout "I've tried the rest, now give me the Brest". Our resolve is sure, we will prevail!


that's a good analysis !

Steve Dickinson Publisher of Wind and Kite

Shaan I asked you once before to remove our advert but on your assurance that the individual abuse would not be tolerated we let it remain.

This latest on going rhetoric directed at retailers, importers and manufactures.. That simply abuses a group of individuals who have made an honest, constructive living out of a sport they enjoy is pathetic to say the least.

We simply choose not to be associated with what you as the owner of this forum has to say and the control you have over what is presented here. What you say is often offensive, often incorrect and all about your own agenda with different personalities in the sport.

Your comments about us doing something constructive now thats ludicrous you personally may not like the publication but you cannot deny the impact it has had nor its success.

When we first launched Wind and Kite we received a long abusive letter from you telling us of all you had done and how you were going to make sure the publication would never got off the groundwe I guess things have come full circle.

As for your pathetic dig in relation to titles what can I say
Maybe we should have called the magazine Kiteboarding Quarterly but if we could only ever produce three tiny copies I guess we would need to call it Kiteboarding Thirdly.

I cant make you remove the advert
But we will forward you a replacement as per our last communication
And if that is not posted as per our dying contract then we certainly wont be paying you.

if you wanna shift all this best camel crap
click here

mirrored.flabber.nl/boob.cursor/ciagnijcycka.swf

great to get some more pseudo-intellectual discourse from you steve. as usual your clumsy arguments are high on hyperbole and short on fact.

i note this time it's just you, not like your last post which claimed to be penned by two people. how does that work? do you share the button pushing on the keyboard, or does derek type while you dictate? fascinating i'm sure.

anyway - a few clarifications;

1. i made no such assurance. i did point out this was a public forum with clashing opinions and occasional abuse which i moderate to the best of my ability, and am always open to input about what people find abusive etc. from my recollection you 'let' the ad remain because of the binding nature of your contract.

2. your next para is a little bewildering - i think you may have left a few connecting words out - but we get the gist: your views are unchanged.

3. you then reiterate your position about association with this forum, yet you are a foundation advertiser, apparently read every word, and routinely interject with your wild and zany ideas, whenever you feel challenged by honest opinion. your gormless non-specific slander "often offensive, often incorrect and all about your own agenda with different personalities in the sport." could also be directed at your publication.

4. as i've pointed out before - the 'impacts and successes' of your magazine on our sport are subjective.

5. incorrect. i have never sent you a long, abusive letter, or in fact a letter of any kind. my only correspondence with you has been the occasional email and invoice dealing with business matters. please do enlighten us further about this claim or did you just make it up?

6. KiteSurf Quarterly actually published four titles, two of which went right through australia and by any standards were not 'tiny copies'. i guess this fact negates your attempt at sarcasm.

7. finally a glimmer of truth about removing the advert. i look forward to seeing your replacement ad. as per our last communication i will be the sole judge on whether it is relevant, objectionable or in bad taste. if it is all good, i will gladly insert it and pass on all associated costs.

thanks again for being such a colourful part of kiteforum.co.nz and for entertaining us with your childish antics.

Hi Shaan

We have known each other for a long time and I have valued the relationship we have had.
Unfortunately, due to my perception now that you think those already involved in the industry do little for 'Kiters' except rip them off, I think things may have to change a little.
As for Best Kites and your obvious enthusiam for there business model ,it leaves me with no choice as a retailer, who advertises on this forum, to discontinue that advertising.
It has no reflection of what I think of best kites, except that internet forums, like this, are their biggest advertising medium - and I'm paying for it!
Shops and schools are the gateway for people to get into this sport. Do not alienate yourself from these people, some of which make this forum feasible and are the ones who have have grown the sport, growing the pool of people to buy your now , apparently, overpriced used gear.

Please discontinue our banner ad.
Happy Kiting
Brian
Pt Chev Sailboards

hi brian. likewise, i have and still do value our relationship.

i am surprised you have bowed to the kind of tactics advocated by steve dickinson at wind & kite, because of your perception about the way i think.

to clarify, i don't think those involved in the industry do little - they have done and will continue to do heaps - namely provide kiteboarders with better and better gear and other services. this has worked for everyone as a symbiotic commercial relationship and long may it last. as i've pointed out, now kiters have another option (not one of my creation) and in my opinion, these alternative options will grow. our sport is all about progression and as at other stages in its development, the people already involved have the first chances at progressing with trends, or resisting them, sometimes to their cost, as we've seen before.

i take your point about best's free advertising on kiting forums - a result of free speech and information sharing. this site will always be for kiters, and the subjects that interest, inflame and entertain them.

of course, if you no longer wish to advertise that is your decision and will be arranged. as you are a friend, we have no contract to run out. thank you for your support in the past and i wish you all the best.

i also take your point about 'now apparently, overpriced used gear' - an interesting possible effect of the current scenario that will affect all of us.

does anyone else want to take their frustrations about best kites out on me? i don't have anything to do with them but what the hell!

I am sure most kiteboarders in Auckland know us. I am Richards dad and shore crew.Richard is 14 years old and has been kitebording 2 years now.He is pretty good at it , kite loops ,board offs and so on. Richard is a pupil at Takapuna Grammar where he is much admired for his kite boarding ability and he is creating a lot of interest in the sport amongst the boys there.
Richard always had my fullest support to progress in this great sport but I had neither the knowledge nor could I afford all the kites he needed We have had the most wonderful support from Auckland dealers in the last two years. Repairs - often free or for little money- equipment at a good price,advice and a chat even if the shop was busy.WSP, Kiteworks,Anabatic - we thank you. Luke from Windscene letting Richard try out 3 of his new harnesses only for Richard to discover thet the one he had suited him best. Derek for his support and enthusiasm for Richards kiting talent.
And the one person without whom Richard would not be kiting anymore.Earl from Naish. He is letting Richard use 4 of his kites - 3 are new Boxers. Free of charge.
And I thank you guys just for the pleasure of talking to you.
Hubert

Ps Who are the rip off dealers?

hi hubert

don't know who the 'rip-off dealers' are - that was a recent addition to this discussion by brian.

Just to clear things up a bit, we at Best are all kiteboarders. First and foremost, we love to kite. We just thought of a way to bring excellent quality products to the kiting public at half the price. Retailers, distributors, schools, manufacturers and magazines have all done wonderful things to promote the sport we all love and we have no malice toward any of them, we just thought up a better mousetrap and brought it to market. I just think it's a shame to see people pulling ads, threatening boycots and the like simply because a less expensive quality product is suddenly available. There are other computers available other then Dell...

I was just wondering if the pages of the impending October Wind and Kite issue might be graced by an advert from Anabatic/best kiteboarding?

If so would the advert include the bypass URL?

Was going to go down to Colac again for easter, but the thermostat has suddenly switched to <5deg. Nevermind, the water kiting season has for sure been long enough, back to the old rockclimbing 'till there's real snow.

Steve Dickinson Wind and Kite

Attention Best Kites
Please be aware that the removal of our advertising support is an on going issue. It is because of the so called 'moderator' of this forum and his attitude towards those within the sport in NZ - without going into lengthy details.

Our removal is not a criticism of Best Kites - nor are we criticising your strategic marketing or price pointit is a criticism of Shaan and the way he runs this forum.
The removal of our advertising support is because we not want to be seen supporting a forum that does nothing to build the sport but constantly pulls down the efforts of others. I presume that others will feel the same.

hey kane - howzit? it's getting damn chilly up here too - i just got back from a nipply sesh at shakers. i'm not kiting anymore in my springsuit until the pohutakawas flower again.

steve - get a life! if you don't want to be associated with this forum - stop posting, especially if you have nothing constructive to say yourself. you aren't a kiter and your views aren't really that interesting and are often quite insulting to the community of kiters that use this forum "that does nothing to build the sport" except enourages rational discussion from which learning and understanding flow.

gumball - if you knew the history and state of our current magazine, you'd understand why we won't be mourning the passing of their ad.

Not even a flowering cabbage tree down at Colac bay...more snow forecast for the south coast this weekend, very unusual. Chris tells me we're going to a slightly warmer, not so secret break just south of Westport. Curried wild goat at the Bay House cafe... left handers rolling past the sunny deck... can't wait. Also if there's no wind we'll climb a few lines on the 40m Charleston seacliffs. A long time ago my great-great whatever-grandfather was the postmaster general in the bustling bygone city of Charleston. In days of old when it sported 62 pubs and as many bordellos. Bit of a special spot for me, historical and also quite nostalgic. Steve probably doesn't remember publishing a centre fold spread of me climbing there in his Adventure magazine... also a long time ago, bit of a hippy phase, purple pants, blue tye dyed shirt like Adrian's lizard one, and a green hat. Anyway back to my point... there's this one really striking heinously over hanging line, has a rogue bolt but not a single mention in any guide book. In 1993 I fantasised about doing the first ascent and even drove the four hours to practice on it quite a few times, but then along came responsibility and the whole effort was relegated to just the odd pleasurable sequence visualization over the following eleven or so years. Maybe I'll get it this weekend? Maybe it'll be windy and I'll just go kiting.

Hi Shaan,

Thought I would help you over that 200 users milestone!
As a first time poster..... ahem.. no really.

Hi All,
Well this topic has some heat in it for sure.
Best Kiteboarding being the starting point for some of the debate.

Yes Kane, anyone who wants to buy a Best Kite can either purchase them in store at my shop, or online from the www.anabatic.co.nz web site.
You can also purchase direct from www.bestkiteboarding.com
Ultimately that decision is up to the rider. The price is the same either way. (GST and import fees included).

As I see it there are few really inovative products in Kiteboarding to capture ones imagination. But here are 3 of my favorite (if you disagree that is totally fine)
'Foils' - The Guerilla, top bit of kiwi kiteboarding kit, I love it.
'Tubes' - Slingshot, totally wicked one-pump and splitstrut design.
Most everyone who has been in contact with Anabatic knows my views on these two.

'Tubes again' - Enter BEST and the kiteboarding price initiative.

The BEST business model was very interesting to me, so I had to take a closer look. (so did a bunch of other NZ business).
The 100% Kiteboarding attitude really impressed as did their enthusiasm for the sport.
How did they manage to lop about 50% off the cost of a performance kite? Welcome to the modern world of business.
Change the structure of your business and you save costs without any loss of quality.

I used to design factory systems, moving a bottle of beer accross a hall and into a box, with the least number of hands involved kept your can of beer cheeper in the 1990's. The Beer was still the same great beer.
Come to think of it, no the beer didn't get cheaper, the brewery made more money.

Ok so BEST is different, they are passing the savings of this new company structure on to the customers. Building a range of quality products and using a new distribution framework to do it.
Pretty simple really.


When I introduced SLINGSHOT into my shop here at Orewa, well you know the shit hit the fan. And I was under pressure not to do it. But everyone calmed down and trusted that I knew what I was doing in the long run. (I'm talking about suppliers here). And SLINGSHOT as a Kiteboarding brand is here.

Now is a time of a little more unsettlement as i take Anabatic Kiteboarding forward again. And to be sure, BEST has set the cat amongst the pigeons. Half priced kites, buy two and get one free and all those great deals we currently have on offer.
Has all caused a bit of a stir. But the riders are not the ones complaining.

Other shops are trying to get my adverts banned from Wind and kite magazine. All sorts of exciting developments are going on. Not to mention the banner adverts here.

In the US the largest retailer of Kiteboarding equipment realkiteboarding.com is also the agent for Slingshot, Best and others. everyting is working fine for REAL.

Anabatic is 100% Kiteboarding, nothing has changed there.

BEST has arrived.
It is all good news.


And it's good night, from Lee.

No trip away for me this weekend - too wound up it work from all sides for that. Peter arrives back in town tomorrow all keen to test his new (and ready to ride) toy...

Kane, I hope you guys have a good trip - Morgan, Jermery and Matt are heading up the island to the Able Tasman, taking my video camera and raiding the demo quiver before the leave as well the bastards! No doubt they shall return with tales to tell, and hopefully all my gear in one piece!

As for climbing, I've never got fully into it - I'll put it down to too short a reach or something! HOWEVER that fresh dump of snow last night (50cm on Porters) has got me thinking about some snowboard mountaineering again. Might start practicing transciever searches in the sand dunes...

Dave Kay

PS - not really sure this was where the Best post was meant to end up, but posting as a new topic would have made less sense?

And since Lees post jumped in before mine this thread makes even less sense!

Oh well...

interesting reading everyone's last remarks including those of the south islanders, and god knows who else. i deleted the last post from osama ben kiting and banned him and his IP address on suspicion of him being BLOWNAWAY - the very last person we need getting involved at this stage.

this is shaping up to be a real old-fashioned, international, humdinger of an all-in pie throwing contest and i for one can't wait to see what happens next...

Shaan your right I don't kiteboard - well done, you got one thing right. but that does not delete the fact that your attack on manufactures, retailers and importers made in the first part of this thread is offensive. describing them as only after the 'loot' and nothing else -it is crap - they would be better off selling used cars if they wanted to make more money. These individuals have been involved because of the sport - not the money.
Now you have managed to strech this far enough away from what you originally said - but you can't back track because you now see what bullshit it is - the crap was not aimed directly at us - as a publication but at those we know have grown the sport in NZ - sure they have made a living at it - so what - just becuase you couldn't does not mean that other shouldn't.

I am sure you'll come back with your stinging retoric - 'get a life - get over yourself etc etc ' Shaan we have a life - and it is not based on pulling others down to our own minimal level -

I doubt you'll ever get any support from the industry again in terms of cheap gear (like you said you always get) - anyone - retailer, manufacture or importer - who chooses to support someone who is so negative towards those who have put thier time,
money and in some cases thier whole professional life into a sport they love - would be stupid.

We have asked for the ad to be removed - seems as if others feel the same - remove it or change it as requested.

good luck finding new support - you'll need it

steve - i respectfully tell you again, stop posting here if you find it all a bit hard.

you are making a complete ass of yourself with your repeated jabber, and avoidance of rational debate - not to mention your barbaric bullying tactics, and now abusive phone messages. you need to relax.

it's pointless reasoning with you because whenever anyone gives solid rebuttal about where you are in error, you won't discuss that issue again and instead move on to some other emotionally charged attitude. for the sake of the readers, i will once again correct your clangers.

i have made no attack on anybody - least of all manufacturers, importers or retailers. indeed one of the people (lee) who you were so quick to leap to the defence of, doesn't seem to have a problem with my analysis of our industry. others have privately said my comments were fair on everybody, and very well-informed. regardless, they were not intended to provoke anyone, least of all you who has nothing whatsoever to do with the current debate.

i did not describe "them as only after the 'loot' and nothing else" as anyone can read. there was at least one other thing there. why do you always misquote my actual words?

intelligent people will always be wary of those who seek to distort or silence the free flow of information, and witnessing your behaviour is enough to put anyone off the concept of supporting the establishment.

your wierdness increases with your bizzare statements about me not making a living out of the sports i love - something i have successfully done for many years now and will continue to do in ever changing ways, no doubt.

one other advertiser has bowed to your pressure - others are lining up to get on board. advertisers are of no consequence to the success of this forum. they are a bonus, and in return they get great exposure for their products and services to a growing kiting population. there are wiser, more mature heads than yours who aren't so quick to make knee-jerk decisions they may later regret, especially over someone's opinions.

the kiters / readers know this forum is about them, they trust it and identify with it in ways they can't with other media.

you don't see any of them jumping on this bandwagon.

i would suggest you have some serious emotional baggage and get increasingly frustrated when you can't come into our world and control it with implicit threats of business violence.

as you know, i have tried to work with you for the good of the sport. if this is no longer possible, please refrain from posting here and leave us kiters in peace.

i have clearly communicated the progress with your ad requests. i will let the readers know about your bizzare behaviour in due course. until then, i really have other things to get on with (including kiting) rather than deal with your little one man crusade against freedom of speech.

p.s. if you're going to shoot the messenger - be careful, the messenger may have superior firepower and shoot back!

I'm keeping my head down, and don't want to be dragged into all that.
There are many differing views here, I see no need to shout them down.
Rather discuss my one eyed view on the Kiteboarding industry over a coffee with you guys than online.

I know that the camel spit might come my way one day but honestly can we see the return of "Osama Ben Kiting".
I know he posted his views last night that you didn't like.
But is this not what this Forum is about. The open and free expressions of Kiters.
Plus he writes all his spiel while hiding under a blanket, in candle light, in a cave somewhere warmed only by his close relationship with his camel.
Must be real hard to connect that PDA to WOOSH while living underground.


....Whats with this northerly wind too.... its been blowing all morning.
Stanmore Bay would be on now.

if osama can prove he's not mark tucker, he's welcome back. my reasons for banning mark tucker are well documented, he has consistently abused this forum with his flaming and he takes up too much of my time, not unsimilar to steve dickinson, only blownaway has some redeeming qualities.

yeah - let's get it on at manly! can you pump up that Best 12m and give me a spin on it? i'd like to know what all the fuss is about. at least that will give the windsurf retailers something tangible to bitch about.

the only constint is change,and my bad spelling. i caught that northerly at the bay yesterday,as did afew others,the water was dirty ,the major pipe works around st helliers the cause.

This not really Roy
It is I - Osama - back - I have been Talibaned (nothing much on these days anyway) but now I have been forum banned.
I will be back

Like I am saying it is not Roy - But Osama. Risen from the dusty sands.
Lee - whoever you maybe - thanks you my friend for your concerns - tis not easy writing tales from under a camel hair blanket - with the evil Bush trying to track me down.
I have been forum banned - but have returned - I am not some poor soul called Tucker - can you image how my fellow Talibans would tease me with a name like that -!

But I was banned - I am not sure why- all I said was Shaan had not friends, and no chance of ever getting cheap gear again from any importers and whack as quick as an Afgan winter I was banned.

Yet the infidel Shaan says this is the home of free speech - whose free speech I ask? - oops I might get banned again and am running out of names.

But now must go and find the wind someone please tell Shaan that someone has stolen the legs of his car seat as I saw him go past with his nose only just above the steering wheel. This I not safe sit up and be proud my brother.

whoever you are - you're not very well informed. i am currently in the middle of a deal getting new rags from one importer, and partial sponsor, and new boards from another manufacturer.

those guys are smart enough not to let my truthful words get in the way of good relationships.

when i began kiting, there were no retailers (except kiteworks selling c-quads) and as i was then sponsored by naish for wave-sailing, it was a natural progression into partially sponsored kiting gear.

on the last available national results, i am currently ranked 7th= kiter in this country and #2 in auckland.

like any successful high profile rider, i never have too many dramas getting looked after by importers and retailers, most of whom recognise my ongoing commitment and contribution to the sport.

as far as i know, the only person who has a big problem with my spiel on best (clearly labelled as my humble opinion) is steve dickinson, who as you can see from this thread, continually changes his tune about what his actual glitch is - not that anyone cares.

i hope this clears up some of your obvious misunderstandings.

regardless of anyone's standing with anyone, as we've seen, people can now choose to have direct access to gear, without having to deal with the political machinations and gangland attitudes of cretins like steve dickinson.

my (hopefully) final words on this subject are relevant to all aspects of life, and should be of comfort to importers and retailers who have ridden out some big crises in the past;

some people want cheap things - other people want good things.

Osama here again

Brother Shaan so glad the importers have not judged you too harshly for your
And I quote
truthful words
manufacturers, distributors and retailers are by necessity concerned with just three things; 1). making loot, 2). their own survival and, 3). making loot.
If you my brother have found one that feels that having you fly their flag is good for their brand well donebut surely it is Best kites
But like you say in your Humble opinion you are
i am currently ranked 7th= kiter in this country and #2 in auckland.

2nd best kiter in Auckland WOW I and my camel and all the other camels here at the oasis are impressed as hell however it does not say much for the level of kiting in Auckland. Unless points are being awarded for funny car.

Humility is the second command of Allah and you have slipped from grace his grace not unlike the seat in your car.

As for poor Steve gangland attitudes he will not be impressed with you digging up his dim dark past - I know those days are way behind our brother publisher no longer does he break the finger or wear the patch- however he may now make in your case an exception

I've been reading all these posts with interest and since I'm a retailer (not kites unfortunately) I thought I'd put my two cents in.
The way Shaan put it - loot, survival and loot - was not the most tactful way but at the end of the day as any of you who run your own business are aware the bottom line is important. So yes I'm in business because I love what I sell and what I do but also because I can make money and pay the rent and maybe have some money left over to do the fun stuff like kite. All you people seem to think this is something to be ashamed of! I'm not, I'm very proud that I can run a business and make money to survive. I'm sure all you importers, exporters and retailers are proud of that too, i read that post a couple of times now and there was no indication that anyone was doing anything dodgy - though I'm not in that business - in fact it seemed that everyone is doing their bit to make kiting as acessible for as many people as possible (good on yah) as 14 yr olds father has said he has found nothing but support.
I think you all are taking things a bit personally. I'm sure Best didn't set up business just to piss you all off. They probably did it because they saw a gap in the market. Lets face it the people who can afford the labels are still going to buy them, and those that can't still can get entry into the wonderful world of kiting - though from the carryone on this forum maybe it isn't that wonerful after all? Personally I'm glad you're mostly anonymous.

Well I guess it's been left to me to write the trip report, luckily I stuffed my heel and not my hand, maybe. It's not technically winter in the South but that didn't stop it snowing on Thursday. This meant Friday was a sunny, albeit white drive across the alps, with a quick stop for some bouldering at Castle Hill. Did you think this was a kite boarding trip? Ha, fooled you, whenever I go to the coast (with Kane admittedly) there's no wind. Other folks come back with great stories of wind and waves and sun and usually get nothing. Worse still I get a little bit of wind to tease me followed by rain. To counter this we made it a climbing trip and took at bit of kite gear along "just in case". We got to Charleston just in time for Kane to throw me 40m off a cliff with swell line crashing around me. A beautiful climb followed as the evening light filtered though the clouds. Of course that night it rained lightly a harbinger of things to come. Saturday involved climbing in bright sunshine between rain showers while watching SW clouds flow past while the surface wind was NE... typical. Sunday had us up looking at SW cloud and....wind, yay! A session at 9 mile beach followed, being fueled by Red Bull and knowing that goat curry was to follow I went a bit hard and ended up coming down from some height onto a solid piece of beach which the water decided to uncover while I was in the air. Ow heel hurts, oh well goat curry it is. Imagine our disappointment to find that the Bay House has changed for the worse. What used to be a nice cosy place to kick back watching the surf roll into the bay has turned into a wanky "restaurant". I guess the jafa wanna be's like it. No goat curry either, although the Chocolate Gateau was nice and the coffee passable. And that was it the rain came we packed up and shot the pass back to Chch, with a brief stop for soup in bustling Taylorville. So I guess the West coast jinx was broken but I had to sacrafice the ability to walk in order to beat it.

Chris

I snuck from Dunedin to ChCh then Nelson via Kaikoura, caught a bit of ok SW on my 13 at Tahunanui one afternoon then 2.5 hours of really nice SW again on a nice choppy incoming tide. Broke a bar leader and got towed in by Capt. C-Quad (thanks eh) quite odd seeing the C-Quads out on the water again. Then 1000 k's home again today back through Murchison, yuck. 7.30am until 6:15pm. Nice weekend, never driven that part of the island missed the three days of 55 knot rain squalls here in Dunedin and got nice and fine sunshine although surprisingly chilly.

Others reported a nice day was had up at Makarora solo sailing the head of the lake last week in southerly.



Craig

9 mile great spot, some wild waves.Did you start at the river mouth and do the big down winder (roughly 9 miles at a guess).
The Boat House has gone swanky for sure,but they could serve you cardboard and it would still taste great with a veiw like that! Love to Kite there, Taurunga Bay.
Cpt C-Quad Roy has saved a many of kiters and their boards off Tahuna including mine.The few years Ive been kiting I have only seen him drop the C-quad in the drink twice! :twisted: :twisted:

We where at the mouth. I thought about the downwinder but then had my whoopsy.
[quote]
The Boat House has gone swanky for sure,but they could serve you cardboard and it would still taste great with a veiw like that! Love to Kite there, Taurunga Bay.
[\quote]
I think Kane's done it. When he and I tried 18 months ago, I launched my kite and the wind died. Don't forget the jinx.

That guy rocks! He was up there at Xmas time delicatly launching a 3.2 in a lot of wind. Unfortunatly he didn't go out, would have loved to have seen that.

Chris

Shaan, these guys have hijacked this thread something shocking. Severe lack of Best advertising going on here. Had a couple of hours mountain board kiting at Brighton last night, really good wind, borrowed a 'spanker 16 Vegas, all red and black with stars on it was. Turns on a dime and has a very persuasive 'flying off the back lines' grunt yet sheets out to diddly squat so should be a goody for kiteloops and gusty Colac waves... which are six months away, but the snow thing is almost imminent.

Fun session at Ashworths on Monday with Alex and Dave. S-SW but mostly cross shore. Good sets coming in, mad slash, smash & dash, good fun, the current killed the upwind, worth the walk. Just like a big POW day, worth walking that ridge. Yesterday was epic flat water NE at lunchtime. Stomped some new stuff-I feel energized !!!
Tim 8)

Yep, and it was also epic on Thursday at dinnertime. Nico and I riding for a good night session at the beach, with a steady 15kts and a good angle to enjoy the small swell.
Great sky full of bright stars around the kite but no moon (moonrise only at 1:40 AM ), we gave up at 8... quite hungry!

There's a justice for the workers!
F*** the daylight savings, we don't care, at least we don't need the SeaSpecs anymore!

Cheers man!
alex.

well i met mr best 2day at lees place,it was a nightmare ,visions of kites past, floating in front of me. i reconised bits and pices of 4 brands,but they look fine and will fly good to i bet,and cheap jezz buy 2 get 1 free...who knows wats goin on